Paper Airplanes

Originally Posted by wilsonmw04

Really??
Wow... I bet your parents like cleaning up after you as well.

<intro>OK - not covering anything about respect for the speakers, sponsors, the possibility of losing an eye, or damaging memorial pages from programs. Those are negatives that need dealing with. This reply is only about jobs and cost.</intro>

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Ummm - I'll bet plumbers hate cleaning out drains, and trash collectors hate collecting trash, and I'm pretty sure urologists are not keen on the location of the prostate, but they all (mostly?) like the paycheck.

The stadium workers have jobs they would not have if there wasn't anything they could do. If everyone just brought lunch, those food kiosk workers could go home. If there was nothing to pick up, the cleaners wouldn't have to work. If everyone was completely honest and knew where everything was, the rest of the staff could be let go as well instead of looking after the property and answering the same question about fifty times each day.

But, of all the messes, paper airplanes have got to be the lowest on the list. They aren't sharp (paper cuts aside), sticky, wet, smelly, or particularly contaminated with spit, snot, or drool.

If FIRST gets stuck with the equivalent of a mini-bar charge for paper airplane disposal, then it's time to reconsider based on the cleaning cost. But if you were one of the cleaners, would you want to clock out an hour or two early, or would you be thankful for a couple more hours in the paycheck?

Don't underestimate the dignity in every job.
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[wilsonmw04]

Originally Posted by three_d_dave

Don't underestimate the dignity in every job.
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I really don't know how to respond to this. It sounds like you are saying that it's ok to make a mess because we are providing work for someone? Is that the gist of it? That logic is so flawed I can't believe you actually said that. If I may be so bold to extend your logic out a bit further.

1. littering at the local park or nature reserve is ok, because you are providing someone a job to clean up after you.

2. speeding/reckless driving is your civic duty because it allows the state trooper to keep their job.

3. Allow companies to ruin the environment b/c it gives the EPA a reason to exist.

Does any of that make sense? It should not in our society. Believe me the folks who work at the dome have more than enough to do after an event like ours. They don't have to pick up airplanes to feed their families.

maybe we, in the FIRST community, need to work on changing our own culture before we work on society's...

[Doc Wu]

Originally Posted by three_d_dave

<intro>OK - not covering anything about respect for the speakers, sponsors, the possibility of losing an eye, or damaging memorial pages from programs. Those are negatives that need dealing with. This reply is only about jobs and cost.</intro>

<Soap Box mode = on>
Ummm - I'll bet plumbers hate cleaning out drains, and trash collectors hate collecting trash, and I'm pretty sure urologists are not keen on the location of the prostate, but they all (mostly?) like the paycheck.

The stadium workers have jobs they would not have if there wasn't anything they could do. If everyone just brought lunch, those food kiosk workers could go home. If there was nothing to pick up, the cleaners wouldn't have to work. If everyone was completely honest and knew where everything was, the rest of the staff could be let go as well instead of looking after the property and answering the same question about fifty times each day.

But, of all the messes, paper airplanes have got to be the lowest on the list. They aren't sharp (paper cuts aside), sticky, wet, smelly, or particularly contaminated with spit, snot, or drool.

If FIRST gets stuck with the equivalent of a mini-bar charge for paper airplane disposal, then it's time to reconsider based on the cleaning cost. But if you were one of the cleaners, would you want to clock out an hour or two early, or would you be thankful for a couple more hours in the paycheck?

Don't underestimate the dignity in every job.
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Spoken like a true CEO...

Don't underestimate the arrogance of those who think minimum wage makes it okay to treat people like dirt.

[Bongle]

Originally Posted by three_d_dave

...
Don't underestimate the dignity in every job.
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I don't entirely disagree with your post, but if you want the workers to be able to take pride in their work, maybe they'd prefer to spend a couple hours really polishing the stadium above "par" rather than just picking up airplanes to get it back to "par". What you've got there is the broken window fallacy: you're claiming that by making something dirty, you're employing someone and thus creating activity in the economy. But really, the global quality of life is higher if the dirtied/broken thing had remained clean in the first place. In this case, the cleaner's time could either be spent with his/her family or by cleaning the stadium to a higher standard.

Also, you say that "wouldn't they rather be cleaning planes than sticky goop: they still have to clean up all the sticky goop left by us as well. It's not like everyone said: "hey, let's toss planes instead of drinking pop/sandwiches/candy/etc" that day.

Any solution to the paper airplane issue has to include cleanup. Whether that is banning them entirely or creating a reward system for cleaning them.

[CENTURION]

Originally Posted by three_d_dave

<intro>OK - not covering anything about respect for the speakers, sponsors, the possibility of losing an eye, or damaging memorial pages from programs. Those are negatives that need dealing with. This reply is only about jobs and cost.</intro>

<Soap Box mode = on>
Ummm - I'll bet plumbers hate cleaning out drains, and trash collectors hate collecting trash, and I'm pretty sure urologists are not keen on the location of the prostate, but they all (mostly?) like the paycheck.

The stadium workers have jobs they would not have if there wasn't anything they could do. If everyone just brought lunch, those food kiosk workers could go home. If there was nothing to pick up, the cleaners wouldn't have to work. If everyone was completely honest and knew where everything was, the rest of the staff could be let go as well instead of looking after the property and answering the same question about fifty times each day.

But, of all the messes, paper airplanes have got to be the lowest on the list. They aren't sharp (paper cuts aside), sticky, wet, smelly, or particularly contaminated with spit, snot, or drool.

If FIRST gets stuck with the equivalent of a mini-bar charge for paper airplane disposal, then it's time to reconsider based on the cleaning cost. But if you were one of the cleaners, would you want to clock out an hour or two early, or would you be thankful for a couple more hours in the paycheck?

Don't underestimate the dignity in every job.
<Soap Box mode = off>

Those stadium workers already have jobs. Their job is to clean the stadium. They would be there cleaning that night whether paper airplanes were thrown or not. That doesn't mean it's okay to make a ton more work for them. Creating a bigger mess does not create more jobs, it just make the ones that exist harder.

Trash collectors come by each week to collect your trash, no matter what. That doesn't mean you should leave your trash strewn all over your front yard instead of in the can.

Janitor's job is to clean a building, and keep it running. Just because they mop the floors doesn't mean you should pour soda all over it.

[Dgk518]

I personally thought it was cool, I was on the field and to the rookie who made it in the five point goal you are my hero. There is a time and a place for it and it is before the finals start, and maybe when they anounce the champions, but while there are guests speaking and matches being played i mean c'mon really?