Attn: Present & Future College Students, Think carefully before you mentor

[CENTURION]

Since this thread has been bumped, I guess I'll chime in with my story. (There's a TL;DR farther down though too)

I started FRC in late 2009 (Just after the build/competition season ended) as a senior in High School. And, as Wooide Flowers puts it, I "caught the bug", and was totally hooked. So when I took a year off after high school, I basically just worked part time and did FRC.

I started school again in 2011, with 17 credits a semester in a technical college course in machine tool. I kept on working part time, and doing FRC as sort of a Junior Mentor. As you can imagine, this made my schedule very tight, but really, the stress was manageable, I just got used to spending almost no time at home besides sleeping (if that )

Now on to 2012-2013. I kept on doing all the same stuff; 17 credits, part time work, and FRC. But then, In late 2012, I picked up an FTC team. We had a couple of students at a local high school who wanted to start a team, and reached out to BadgerBOTS, needing a mentor. A mentor (the kind of mentor you should be careful around because he'll convince you to do something crazy) thought I would be good for the role.

So, being in too good of a mood to be safely making sound decisions, I said yes.

So there I was, 17 credits, working part-time, and mentoring FRC and FTC. Eventually, the stress from all of that did end up getting to me. I didn't have any time to myself. If I wasn't at school or work I was working with FTC because that season was in full swing. And then there was the overlap between the FRC and FTC seasons which made it even crazier.

I had a bit of a multi-day breakdown, where I considered dropping the FTC team, or dropping the work (I was living at home, so didn't strictly need the money). But after a bit of that, I got a hold of myself, and pulled it together. I had committed to doing these things, and I had to see them through.

Just before our regional, (and the end of the FTC season) I ended up leaving my job for an unrelated reason, and things got much easier. But then I started putting in many more hours per week for FRC.

TL;DR: Mentored FRC and FTC while working part time and running a full class load in college, went crazy for a while, but made it through.

Mentoring while in school is tough. But honestly, it is doable.

That all said, 1306 has since put in a rule that students can't come back to mentor until after their first year of college, so they can acclimate to college life, and then figure out how to juggle FRC and school.

Overall, I'm glad I did keep on mentoring during school. It taught me a lot about time management, responsibility, and keeping myself sane

But I can totally understand that some people may not have the tolerance for stress that I do.

I would like to say though, that if you plan to come back and mentor, make sure you really have something to pass on to the students. Sure the basic FRC knowledge you get from being a student will help some of the newer kids on the team, but it takes a lot more than that to be a mentor. I can honestly say that I've come a very long way from how I was when I started "mentoring" just a couple years ago. There is a much bigger changeover from student to mentor than you think.

[ehochstein]

It seems that people named Evan have the crazy bug. Centurion's story is surprisingly similar to mine and we both happen to be named Evan.

Back in 2008 I helped start my FRC team (2470) as a student in my Sophomore year. I graduated in 2010 as the president of the team and haven't been able to leave since.

I initially came back as a mentor for 2470 in 2011 and continued that into 2012. During 2010 and 2011 I was attending my local community college and I took the spring semester of 2012 off because I decided to transfer to Dunwoody College of Technology.

This meant I also had a ton of extra time to mentor during the spring of 2012, I ended up joining 2470's sister team, 3081 as a mentor as well to foster a relationship between the two teams.

That year the lead mentor/coach of 2470 resigned so I ended up in the position of lead mentor/coach.

I also worked on starting a joint FTC team between both 3081 and 2470. I became coach of this team as well, Erector Sets Gone Mad #5943.

My first semester at Dunwoody (Going for Electrical Engineering) this past fall was incredibly stressful, not only was I mentoring three FIRST teams but I was also taking 19 credits. I ended up giving all of my free time to robotics, in fact my entire life was pretty much robotics and STEM. At this point I like to think I entered a new phase in my life, I felt a need to re-image myself. I had fully realized my passion for FIRST and robotics.

I decided to start GOFIRST at Dunwoody, based off of GOFIRST at the University of Minnesota. I also started networking with other teams in the area (much thanks to FSM Renee Becker), helping create a strong team of mentors in my area. My goal is to create a higher level of competition in Minnesota, causing all teams to improve.

I have also been a software intern for General Dynamics Advanced Information Systems since 2011, helping create a strong partnership for 2470.

To any graduating seniors, please be careful before you decide to mentor your team. Discuss with the mentors on your team and ask them what they think. If they believe it is appropriate go for it but if they say no please respect their decision as it is very hard to transfer from student to mentor. My first year as a mentor was spent learning from other mentors on my team, I was still pretty much a student.

TL;DR: Right now I am the "Senior Technical Mentor/Coach" for 2470, I mentor 3081 and have been asked to take the coach position, I coach FTC #5943, I am president and founder of GOFIRST at Dunwoody, I am currently have an internship at General Dynamics Advanced Information Systems (2470's primary sponsor) and I am attending college for 19 credits per semester. Let's just say I am glad FIRST is my passion and social life.

I was extremely lucky to have the students on 2470 write a Woodie Flowers essay for me this year, I received the award at 10K Lakes. You can read the submission here.

[CENTURION]

Originally Posted by Wiifi

It seems that people named Evan have the crazy bug. Centurion's story is surprisingly similar to mine and we both happen to be named Evan.

Must be!

Thanks for sharing your story, we do seem a lot alike

[Karibou]

Originally Posted by Wiifi

TL;DR: Right now I am the "Senior Technical Mentor/Coach" for 2470, I mentor 3081 and have been asked to take the coach position, I coach FTC #5943, I am president and founder of GOFIRST at Dunwoody, I am currently have an internship at General Dynamics Advanced Information Systems (2470's primary sponsor) and I am attending college for 19 credits per semester. Let's just say I am glad FIRST is my passion and social life.

Kudos to you, man. That's a lot on your plate and it sounds like you're handling it pretty well.

From an alternate perspective, I've been at 16 or 17 credits for the past two years of college, and I can't imagine myself having the time to mentor a team as well. Granted, I've chosen to take part in other activities within the school that also take up significant amounts of time, but they don't cause nearly as much concentrated stress as build season. I could have chosen to mentor teams here, and I'm sure I could have adapted to the challenge and workload, but I don't think it would have been the best choice for me. For now, I'm content with volunteering when I'm able to (which is not nearly as much as I would like) so that I can stay involved with FIRST, but still pursue other things.

So, your mileage may vary. You're not obligated to mentor as a college student: there are other ways to stay involved, if you want to. If you want to, great! But there's no pressure.

[Alex2614]

I must say it was much easier for me since I am mentoring the team that I was on all 4 years in high school (starting from its rookie year) and living at home. Despite all this, I STILL find my grades needing a little work and find myself having a hard time balancing my commitments to other organizations. I am in the marching band for WVU, and still actively involved in scouting. However, despite everything, I still have to find time for FIRST. It's extremely difficult, but it still happens.

Essentially what I'm trying to say is that if you have the passion and drive to mentor a team, it is possible. But don't think it's going to be a piece of cake. Like I said, I'm probably in one of the easier mentoring situations for a college student and I still have trouble keeping up.

[Steven Donow]

Hate bumping old threads, but an incredibly rude comment made to me today has had me up in arms/my mind racing, and I couldn't think of a major discussion topic enough to warrant a new thread.

I was told today, by a fellow college student (albeit one who is going for his postbaccalaurete/masters; his first degree in engineering) that, as opposed to mentoring a FIRST team in college (which I plan on) I should "do something real with my life, like SailBot"(or concrete canoe or Baja SAE or one of the many other engineering extracurriculars my school offers).

Now, obviously, I know how absurd/rude/ridiculous that comment was, and normally I shake off stuff like that and don't let it get to me, but it's really got me thinking: Outside of the idea of being a mentor (in the educational/inspirational sense) what does mentoring a FIRST team in college have that other college extracurriculars don't?

[Alex2614]

Originally Posted by DevenStonow

Outside of the idea of being a mentor (in the educational/inspirational sense) what does mentoring a FIRST team in college have that other college extracurriculars don't?

I don't think there is much to say outside of CHANGING LIVES.

But you are also gaining educational experience. I don't care what field you go into, teaching/mentoring experience is extremely valuable. Not to mention the fact that, even though you are one of the mentors, you are still getting to work with real professionals in the field, rather than just professors or grad students. If I was an employer, I would rather see you volunteering your time to a community organization that helps to change lives everywhere (particularly if you are involved in outreach, starting teams, etc. like I am) that still somewhat relates to your career field OVER something like a collegiate robotics team. Mentoring a FIRST team is COMPLETELY different than participating in a collegiate robotics team. It also would look great to me that you are dedicating yourself to an organization and a group of students that you love, rather than just doing something to advance your career. You participated on a team in high school. Now it's time to LEAD. That brings me to the last point I have. Just like FIRST provides tremendous leadership experience for participants, it also provides this opportunity for college students as well. As an employer, again, that is much more valuable than the participation experience. Now, I could be completely off, and excuse my late-night incomprehensiveness.

That being said, there is nothing saying that you can't mentor a FIRST team AND do something else (I am currently involved in a number of student and community orgs). It is entirely possible, and I would encourage you to do so.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by DevenStonow

Outside of the idea of being a mentor (in the educational/inspirational sense) what does mentoring a FIRST team in college have that other college extracurriculars don't?

Your fellow college student has it halfway right. Participating in those other engineering activities is certainly doing something real with your life. But what he's missing is the fact that mentoring a FIRST team lets you do something real with many other people's lives.

SailBot et al provide you with experience. So does mentoring, but of a completely different kind. However, mentoring isn't for you. It's for the others.

[Christopher149]

Ooh, story time. So, after being on an FLL team in elementary and middle school, I joined 857 and was there for the four years of high school. Then, I went to Michigan Tech for college, and started right away mentoring the team. So, freshman year I'm taking 17 credits spring semester, mentoring, and have a part-time job in the MathLab, and 4.0 my classes. Basically same thing sophomore year. Now this, my *more-or-less* junior year (the dual-enrollment and internship make it complicated) I am now lead mentor, but I'm looking to only take 16 credits. Out of that, I overall have a 3.98, and I've had an internship running from May through this December.

Originally Posted by Karibou

Kudos to you, man. That's a lot on your plate and it sounds like you're handling it pretty well.

From an alternate perspective, I've been at 16 or 17 credits for the past two years of college, and I can't imagine myself having the time to mentor a team as well. [snip]

<humor>*shakes fist* We go to the same university, so why do I only know you on ChiefDelphi?</humor>

Originally Posted by DevenStonow

Hate bumping old threads, but an incredibly rude comment made to me today has had me up in arms/my mind racing, and I couldn't think of a major discussion topic enough to warrant a new thread.

I was told today, by a fellow college student (albeit one who is going for his postbaccalaurete/masters; his first degree in engineering) that, as opposed to mentoring a FIRST team in college (which I plan on) I should "do something real with my life, like SailBot"(or concrete canoe or Baja SAE or one of the many other engineering extracurriculars my school offers).[snip]

I swear, whenever we try to get someone to join as a mentor here who is in college, if they say "no", this is exactly the reason they give. Not necessarily those specific programs, but to go and "improve themselves" or "go do real things".

TL;DR: Mentoring in college is not hard for me, but your mileage may vary.

PS. 857 and 2586 are essentially exclusively mentored by college students. We've gotten flak in the past for it, but the way I look at it is, even though the team suffers from perpetually being about 4 years old, we won't crumple if that one coach/teacher/mentor/engineer decides to retire.

PPS. Also, last year, 857 had three college student mentors who had all been on 857 in high school.

[Oblarg]

Originally Posted by DevenStonow

Now, obviously, I know how absurd/rude/ridiculous that comment was, and normally I shake off stuff like that and don't let it get to me, but it's really got me thinking: Outside of the idea of being a mentor (in the educational/inspirational sense) what does mentoring a FIRST team in college have that other college extracurriculars don't?

Last year, I helped a loose collection of high-schoolers with no prior engineering experience at all go from disorganized meetings in a college community center to a functioning team with a robot that was able to hold its own at competition, and which made it to worlds. Several students are now planning to pursue careers in engineering.

That experience was more valuable for me (and, I hope, for the students) than anything I have done before in my life (and I also work on projects that I think even that guy would consider "real").

So, yeah, don't let it get to you. FIRST is important, it is rewarding, and it is every bit as "real" as any other extracurricular you could participate in. It's one thing to hear Dean Kamen talk about "changing culture re: STEM" in a vacuum, where it sounds (admittedly) cheesy and overblown. It's another thing to participate in it, and realize that he's right: FIRST works. It worked for me, and it certainly seems to be working for the students on the teams I'm mentoring. It would not work without mentors.

As mentioned a few posts earlier, "changing lives" isn't just a couple of impressive-sounding words, it's very much a real result of what you do as a mentor on a FIRST team.

[Libby K]

Originally Posted by DevenStonow

(snipped)

I was told today, by a fellow college student (albeit one who is going for his postbaccalaurete/masters; his first degree in engineering) that, as opposed to mentoring a FIRST team in college (which I plan on) I should "do something real with my life, like SailBot"(or concrete canoe or Baja SAE or one of the many other engineering extracurriculars my school offers).

(snip)

Outside of the idea of being a mentor (in the educational/inspirational sense) what does mentoring a FIRST team in college have that other college extracurriculars don't?

I don't like the way he said it, but ...

I think when he said 'something real' he probably meant something DIFFERENT. Having new experiences is a really good thing. That doesn't make FIRST any less of a real, valuable, and enriching experience, but the idea of doing 'something else' with your time while you have so many opportunities in front of you isn't a bad suggestion.

I mentored in college, and continue to mentor as a graduate student. However, I always make sure to have some 'me' time to do something that interests me that ISN'T FIRST. (Yes, somehow it's possible that something in my life isn't connected to FIRST). Having a diverse set of experiences and new things to draw from is a very good thing.

Make sure you have a 'you' outside of FIRST. This community will be here when you get back. It's perfectly okay not to stay hyper-involved during your college years.

[KrazyCarl92]

Originally Posted by DevenStonow

Outside of the idea of being a mentor (in the educational/inspirational sense) what does mentoring a FIRST team in college have that other college extracurriculars don't?

The opportunity to be a role model right away for young people at a critical point in their lives. Being a positive role model to the high school students that I work closely with is something that I strive for. If the students say "I want to be like him/her", and that is a positive influence on them, then clearly that mentor is doing something right. Not sure that can happen so directly through any of the other activities listed.

However as Libby mentions, balance is critical. Doing well with respect to your own standards in school and pursuing other activities that you enjoy are critical to being a positive role model. A mentor who fails all their classes in college in order to mentor and doesn't honor commitments to other things they enjoy can be a negative influence on a team and its students more than anything. They could better contribute as an alumni who chooses to prioritize grades and other commitments above FIRST involvement, then going on to become a leader in STEM and mentoring a FIRST team later on.

Different strokes for different folks, there is no one size fits all answer and just like designing a robot or developing a strategy for FRC, prioritization and awareness of one's abilities/resources are vital.

[Oblarg]

Well, scratch another year of balancing FRC mentoring (for two teams) and university classes. Here are some thoughts, in case anyone might find them helpful/informative/interesting.

This one was significantly more stressful/difficult than the last: I took five classes rather than four, including what is regarded as the most difficult undergraduate math course at our university (Galois theory). Both teams combined, I spent about 40 hours per week on robotics for a large chunk of the semester, as opposed to 20-25 last year, and was in a far more crucial role on 4464 than previously. After build season ended, I missed a total of 9 days of class due to traveling to competitions.

The results were very good. Both 449 and 4464 were the strongest they've ever been; the latter reached worlds for the second time in two years and played an important role on the winning alliance at the DC Regional. In terms of academics, I managed nothing below a B, and an A in the hardest course I took. My grades took a hit from what they would have been, but it wasn't disastrous.

That said, I would not do this semester again in the same way if given the choice. It's far too much, and no results are worth that much stress. I implore anyone who intends to mentor as a college student to hedge either their participation on the team or their academic workload during the spring semester. After the last day of build season, I essentially slept through three days of classes. I did the same after spending the entirety of my spring break working on the practice bot. I cannot imagine that the amount of exertion was healthy, nor the unending state of stress that lasted for essentially the whole semester.

Perhaps the most telling moment was, when asked by a parent of one of 4464's students how I manage to keep up with all the class I've missed and time I've invested into robotics, my honest answer was that I didn't. I managed as best I could in the time I did have in class, and as it happens that ended up being good enough to learn most of the material and receive acceptable grades. That is not a healthy approach to college, and I do not wish to repeat it.

I will not say that you should not mentor as a college student, or even that you should not be in serious mentoring position with a large amount of responsibility as a student; I have gotten a huge amount out of my participation in FIRST after graduating. I will say that you must be wise about your own limitations and the amount of work you take on. Err on the side of caution; having come frighteningly close to burnout this year, I can say with a fair amount of confidence that you don't want to suffer the consequences of getting it wrong.

[Joe Matt]

Did a quick post on selling shirts, so I wanted to pop my head in here and tell all the new freshman to NOT do FIRST freshman year of college. Grow, expand, learn, then come back when you can offer something new.

[Joseph Smith]

Originally Posted by Joe Matt

Did a quick post on selling shirts, so I wanted to pop my head in here and tell all the new freshman to NOT do FIRST freshman year of college. Grow, expand, learn, then come back when you can offer something new.

I have to argue that a blanket statement like this is unwise. Everyone's situation is different. I graduated from High School in 2013 and after a year of classes at Kettering University I know I made the right choice to mentor this past season. One of the reasons I chose a B-section schedule (school in April-June and October-December and work in January-March and July-September) was so that I would be able to mentor my team during my work term. It was tiring, going from work to robotics then straight to sleep when I got home, but it was worth it. My team was very influential to me during high school and I want to make sure as many kids as possible get as much out of it as I did.