Saving Seats Epidemic

[robobuilder]

As a scout myself I have been guilty of saving seats. I realize it is frustrating to wake up at 5 to find a line of teams with 3-4 representatives trying to save seats. But they woke up even earlier than you did, while the rule the rule does say that saving seats for groups is not allowed (which my team respects) I think a possible solution is that a small group from a team should be able to acquire 'scouting passes' like media passes but instead of letting people onto the floor this would allow them into a reserved section with ideal viewing for scouting. The passes would have to be rotatable of course (not have names) but this would prevent 1 person trying to save 60 seats. Thoughts?

[Ryan Caldwell]

I was told by a concerned mother that i was sitting in a saved seat when i was at the front edge of what was easily 50 empty seats taped off.
After explaining that the manual has a rule against saving seats and getting the oh so classic response of everyone else is doing it. I told her that she might be in the wrong place as FIRST isn't well known for creating mindless sheep. Now i'm a self admitted smartass and was pleased with the banter but I did feel a little bad after she came down to continue the argument and all I did was "Bah" at her like a sheep while watching the remainder of my teams match...

Cheers! and remember "if ya can't convince them confuse them" - HS Truman

[MrForbes]

As far as I know, our team never sat together as a team at Championships this year. I was busy running back and forth watching matches and playing with the robot in the pits, but I never had a problem finding a seat to watch matches (usually sitting with 842, 610 or 118 on Galileo).

I also noticed the many announcements in the pit about "no saving seats", but never heard that announcement in the stands, which is where the folks who need to hear it are sitting.

[Carolyn_Grace]

A simple, "We're trying to have enough space for our drivers and pit crew to sit during our matches, but you're absolutely welcome to sit with us. You'll be surrounded by people cheering like crazy and wearing [color of your team shirts]," seems to work quite well.

Saying something with a smile in good-nature generally tends to help any situation.

[MamaSpoldi]

Originally Posted by dcarr

Aside from literally ticketing seats, does anyone have observations or best practices from other events that involve "first come, first serve" seating? Not sure what kind of events those might be, but I think we need something better than what we have. At the same time I think it's vital that the ability for teams to sit and cheer together be maintained.

At the Granite State Regional, they had a decent sized section front and center that was set aside for the teams in the current match. I didn't find out about it until Saturday, but it seems like a good idea. Maybe the whole team (for large teams) would not fit there but at least each team could have a representation in that excellent viewing area. This idea could, for example, solve issues with those coming up from the pits to watch their team's match... and therefore seats for them would not need to be saved in the rest of the stands. Has any other regional tried this?


I also like the idea of a reserved section for scouters from each team (although 10 per team sounds excessive since there are only 6 robots on the field at a time). The issue I don't have a solution for with this is that there are 100 teams in a division at Champs which would result in 600 seats being reserved front (actually middle to back of lowest section is actually a better view for scouting) and center. If there are teams who are not using these seats then those prime seats are wasted. Maybe a registration of the number of scouting seats that you need (up to a maximum of 6-7) would work. Then seats would not be wasted.

[Mykey]

I am sure that the majority of the people involved in First have both the knowledge of, and the ability to understand, the "do not save seats" rule. It is announced continually over the PA's, written in the rule book, posted online, and as I have heard through the many stories people are telling it directly to each other.

I understand wanting to stay together as a group. However, this is one of the times when plain old logistics force us to take a more gracious approach to a situation.

I personally would be straight up embarrassed to be sitting in a seat that had a sign on it stating "VIP Reserved" while someone was announcing that saving seats is against the rules. I am not making up the sign. We saw it at regionals.

Saving seats says "you are important" to the person it is being saved for. What message do you think everyone else is getting from you?

[Pendulum^-1]

Originally Posted by JamesSpencer

Overall I believe most people’s championship experience was a positive one but there is one issue that we still need to fix as a community. Saving Seats!

So very glad that someone (besides me) started this thread, and that so many people echoed concern about the problem. As the pit crew leader on a small team that does not practice reserved seating, I could write a huge wall of text about my experiences over the last several years. But I'd rather just focus on a proposed solution.

Proposed solution:

Event organizers would designate a two cheering sections, one for each alliance. These cheering sections would be comprised of 60-100 seats each, and would be among the very best seats in the house. Comparable to those reserved for the VIPs. (It could even be to the left and right of the VIP section.) The teams for each alliance in each match would self-organize alliance cheering squads to fill the seats. When their match ends, both entire cheering sections would vacate immediately, and the cheering squads for the alliances in the next match would fill the Red and Blue cheering sections. This cycle would continue all tournament long.

Notes:
1) It should not be much of an issue, time-wise, for people to migrate into/out of the cheering sections. Field resets take more than 5 minutes, and it takes less time than that for teams to file from the higher levels of the arena to the field and back to get their awards.

2) The energy levels in preliminaries would go up dramatically. WIth reps from three teams sitting in each alliance cheering section, and sitting near the field, these sections would be loud, indeed.

3) Students, aside from just the drive teams, would get to know and visit with their counterparts on other teams. Networking opportunities would go up A LOT.

4) Any solution would have to impose minimal requirements on the event staff. The teams themselves should be able to police this themselves, especially after a few rounds, and teams start to understand the concept better.

5) My number of 60-100 is entirely flexible. The community can figure it out over the course of several events, and come to a suitable number. I only suggest that entire rows of a section be designated, in order to facilitate entry/exit.

6) This should take some of the pressure off of teams to reserve huge sections of stands. Sure, some large tracts will still be reserved, but the situation won't be quite as contentious, as it is during the mundane qualification matches on Friday and Saturday am, when multiple rows of prime seating are laying fallow for hours, just waiting for their big team to occupy the seats during the elimination matches on Saturday afternoon.

7) It is critical that these sections be among the best seats in the house. If not, they won't be used as intended.

[Duncan Macdonald]

Originally Posted by Carolyn_Grace

A simple, "We're trying to have enough space for our drivers and pit crew to sit during our matches, but you're absolutely welcome to sit with us. You'll be surrounded by people cheering like crazy and wearing [color of your team shirts]," seems to work quite well.

Saying something with a smile in good-nature generally tends to help any situation.

Shouldn't your drivers be elsewhere?

Originally Posted by Ryan Caldwell

...
FIRST isn't well known for creating mindless sheep.
...

I'd be willing to discuss this in another thread.

[Koko Ed]

The best way to get people to curb bad behavior is to hit them where it hurts.
Teams come to the competition to win awards and I bet they wouldn't act they way they do if there was a judge nearby but the judges have better things to do than babysit unruly teams.
Here's a viable solution: A few years ago at IRI they instituted a Stealth Judge (Andy Baker's brother) who hung out in the stands to see how teams behave (because most teams can the Junkyard Dog act when they see someone in a open collard blue shirt and play nice til they go away). After they go away all bets are off! If they have no idea that they are being scrutinized by an undercover judge who gets to see their bad behavior in full effect they can then inform that team that they will not be receiving any awards this weekend. I bet that'll curb their nasty attitude very quickly and hopefully for the future as well.

[Duncan Macdonald]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

The best way to get people to curb bad behavior is to hit them where it hurts.
Teams come to the competition to win awards and I bet they wouldn't act they way they do if there was a judge nearby but the judges have better things to do than babysit unruly teams.
Here's a viable solution: A few years ago at IRI they instituted a Stealth Judge (Andy Baker's brother) who hung out in the stands to see how teams behave (because most teams can the Junkyard Dog act when they see someone in a open collard blue shirt and play nice til they go away. After they go away all bets are off! If they have no idea that they are being scrutinized by an undercover judge who gets to see their bad behavior in full effect they can then inform that team that they will not be receiving any awards this weekend. I bet that'll curb their nasty attitude very quickly and hopefully for the future as well.

Yeah recognition is nice, but are we are trying to teach our kids the reason to do anything is for the awards? (This is my main issue with some teams chairmans or safety motivation already)

The implementation of this would need to be painfully blunt for most teams to understand why they weren't ever winning anything. "This award would have gone to WXYZ but they are jerks so we are giving it to ZYXW" and that would really make ZYXW feel great about themselves too.

[ASmith1675]

I've been a member of the pit crew since I first joined a team. Lately, its gotten to a point where its not worth the effort to try to procure a seat with the team to watch the match live. I know a few of our other pit members felt the same way this year.

To be honest, I'd be perfectly happy with watching a proper full field stream video of the match from the pits. The pit streams at the regionals we attended this year were decent enough to get an idea what was happening in the match, but usually cut away as soon as you really wanted to see what your robot was doing. I'm willing to bet there are other pit crews out there that would just as soon watch from the pits so that they can be ready when the robot comes back. (This is particularly frustrating at champs where the walk from the stands to the pit is ~15mins depending on your field, and there is no video anywhere in the pit area)

Having this option available might help cut down on some of the back and forth traffic between the pits and the stands that some are saving seats for. Obviously, this would not be a full solution, but every little bit helps.

[MechEng83]

Originally Posted by Smitty1707

Lately, its gotten to a point where its not worth the effort to try to procure a seat with the team to watch the match live.

A few programming pit crew members set up a smart phone to stream the match at Champs, considering we were in Newton. It worked fairly well from what I understand.

[Racer26]

Originally Posted by Duncan Macdonald

Yeah recognition is nice, but are we are trying to teach our kids the reason to do anything is for the awards? (This is my main issue with some teams chairmans or safety motivation already)

Yep. Totally my beef with the Safety award. All it really seems to promote is safety theater, which helps nothing, and arguably hurts by creating a false sense of security.

[Maldridge422]

Originally Posted by jessss

At the Minnesota Regionals the first few rows of the center section of seats were reserved for teams. Each team got two seats for scouting, the team number was placed on each seat which was nice. It gave every team an opportunity to use the two seats to scout, record matches or even just sit and watch matches. It was nice because each team knew that they had these two seats and didn't have to worry about saving the seats. I know most teams need more than two scouters but I think it helped at our regionals.

Originally Posted by MamaSpoldi

I also like the idea of a reserved section for scouters from each team (although 10 per team sounds excessive since there are only 6 robots on the field at a time). The issue I don't have a solution for with this is that there are 100 teams in a division at Champs which would result in 600 seats being reserved front (actually middle to back of lowest section is actually a better view for scouting) and center. If there are teams who are not using these seats then those prime seats are wasted. Maybe a registration of the number of scouting seats that you need (up to a maximum of 6-7) would work. Then seats would not be wasted.

I think 2-3 seats for scouters would be very useful. It would cut down on the amount of scouting materials in the rest of the stands while only blocking off a relatively small area. Additionally, it would encourage collaborative scouting and data collection OR more innovate scouting practices. The rest of the stands would, ideally, be free of non-human objects and reserved sections.

[BrendanB]

Creating more team sections in the stands does NOT solve the problem. Designated sections for cheering are nice, but what do those teams do once their match is done? They go right back to their seats so in effect by creating these "sections" we are taking up even more seats which doesn't solve the problem.


Same thing with scouting. Some operations take 2 people, others take 8+, and some teams don't even scout.

I personally think if we are going to have sections they should be for the public/non-team members so the public can come in a feel welcomed not shuttle/pushed off to the worst seats at the arena.