The 6 Week Build Season and 'Mentor Burnout'

[Jared Russell]

Originally Posted by SM987

With 30lbs of withholding this year, it may as well have been an unlimited build season.

Yep. We used much of our 30lbs allowance at each of our events (4 events * 30 lbs allowed at each = one entirely new robot). Add in unbagging hours for District events and we basically had a build season that went from January until May.

"Stop build day" really doesn't exist. Since we "stopped build", we re-designed and re-built our shooter, our intake, our shoulder joint, our loading mechanism, and our 10 pt hanger (literally every function of our robot other than the drive base).

And let me tell you: a 4 month build season kicked our butts. Easter weekend was the first weekend since kickoff that we didn't work on the robot. I think my wife forgot who I am. Many of our mentors are burnt out, and I don't think it's a coincidence that several of us had very bad winters/springs when it comes to illness (the students don't seem to mind, but they are young and energetic and can rotate in and out more than the mentors who are in the critical path).

Most of the pain was self-inflicted. We chose to pursue a very ambitious design, had some manufacturing delays that backed things up, and ultimately set a lofty standard for our robot performance and refused to rest until we met it. If at some point the deadline is extended or eliminated, teams will need to rethink how they look at build season. 6 weeks of "full speed ahead" is really all you can take.

In the end, our robot was pretty good, and we went 7-1 and seeded 5th in Newton. We would not have been able to do that without withholding allowances and unbagging time. In hindsight, if we didn't have to worry about building a practice robot, or building upgrade mechanisms separate from the rest of the competition machine, or spending the first few hours at competition frantically installing our upgrades, our season would have been somewhat less stressful. But honestly, it still would have been on the verge of unsustainable.

Since there really is no such thing as a "6 week build season" for a team like ours, there is really only one way to solve the burnout problem: self-discipline. Teams need to set their own limits and pace themselves. Karthik's talk isn't just about how to make a winning robot; it's about how to keep your sanity.

If we come to the realization that self-discipline is the only thing that will prevent burnout (whether a 6, 8, or N week build season), then I don't see why we need a stop build deadline and the additional stresses it can cause.

The only other option that makes sense is completely eliminating withholding allowances, and going back to the days where half the robots on any given field can't accomplish the game challenge.

[Doug G]

Originally Posted by Hjelstrom

I vote to keep the 6 week deadline. I would even vote to eliminate the withholding allowance. The arms race will get worse as teams start copying the good designs they see in earlier competitions (take a look at VEX). It will turn into a never-ending brutal build season if you want to try to compete with the best.
(just my opinion)

Thank you mentioning VEX... with a longer build season, the amount of improvement leads to a bunch of similar scoring robots, which may be good for the average match score, but I find it a bit uninspiring. At Vex Worlds, a lot of the top bots had a very similar scoring mechanism that I'm sure were inspired by others. The minibot from 2011 is another example. I really enjoy seeing a lot of variety robots and solutions to the game challenge. This year was probably the most variety in robots. If teams were allowed to continue to improve their design, I have a feeling we see a lot more floor intakes, Full Court Shooters, and all would be using the same type of wheels... Boring...

[MrForbes]

I don't have a job, and I get burned out at 6 weeks. Our students do too, so do the teachers. We treat the 6 week build as a 6 week build, when it's over we are done with robots until the competition. Yet we managed to seed first and win the Arizona regional this year, so we might be considered an "elite" team in AZ (which is a relatively small pond).

I've also been involved in another robotics competition in Arizona, the National Underwater Robotics Challenge. This event kicks off on Halloween, and the event is held in June. There is plenty of time to do lots of work for it, whenever you want. Yet most teams show up at the competition with a non-working robot. I think this is the result of procrastination, caused by the way too long build season.

If anyone at FIRST is paying attention to this, please put me in the "keep the 6 week build and get rid of the 30 lbs allowance" camp.

[Jared Russell]

Originally Posted by Tom Line

Yes, the season continues after you bag, but for us it's a much slower pace.

...snip...

Having the robot out-of-bag would mean that the 7 day grind would keep going, because 'large scale' improvements like adding a climber would still be on the table.

Both of these are already choices you and your team are making. If you have the money and time to build a practice robot, 30 lbs and unbagging time are all you need to keep on grinding. Eliminating stop build day would not rob you of the ability to make the same choices. Instead, it gives other teams (without the resources to make practice robot) the ability to do what you currently do.

[Tom Ore]

I'd vote to keep the 6 week build season and a much smaller withholding allowance. Mostly because that's how we function on our team. It would have been great to have a few more days to tune software to improve our consistency, but that's our fault for building up until 11:53 PM on stop build day.

In 2010, 2011, and 2013 we competed at champs with the robot exactly as bagged on stop build day. In 2012 we added a load sensor to help with ball variation but otherwise made no functional changes.. While on one hand I'd love to keep upgrading to improve our robot, on the other hand it's somehow enjoyable to make a plan early in build season and see how it all plays out (especially since it's gone fairly well for us over that span.)

[Chris Fultz]

my personal view is this would help newer teams and not have a signficant impact on many of the teams. It would save $$ and a lot of work and reduce stress.

Why - we build a prototype and then a competition robot. we work hard to keep the two very similar. once we bag the comp robot, then we make changes to the prototype. then we have to make a second spare part for the comp robot. then we have to be sure the new parts will fit and it will all work the same. then we spend a lot of time on thursday morning putting on the new parts, or re-fabricating pieces.

If we had access to the comp robot, we could just work on it. and on thursday, instead of finishing our robot, most of our team could focus on helping the teams that are still struggling.

Even a 1 day "out of the bag" optin each week could make more teams available to help others on the first day of the regionals.

Teams still have a choice. Even with the current rules, some teams meet 7 days a week for 6 weeks. Some meet 3 times a week. Three are some really good teams that do not meet everyday (or even 6 days a week) now.

[Bongle]

Originally Posted by Jared341

Both of these are already choices you and your team are making. If you have the money and time to build a practice robot, 30 lbs and unbagging time are all you need to keep on grinding. Eliminating stop build day would not rob you of the ability to make the same choices. Instead, it gives other teams (without the resources to make practice robot) the ability to do what you currently do.

The problem with self-discipline as a solution is that self-discipline essentially means: "choose between having a non-FIRST life or being competitive". If our team chooses self-discipline and goes back to our families and friends between februrary and march, it means we'd be middle of the pack at best at the competitions, because half the field or more will have been working during that time.

If FIRST mandates (and enforces) a shorter build season, then it means that you don't need to choose: you can work your butt off for 6 weeks, then relax, safe in the knowledge that the competition is also relaxing.

[Chris Fultz]

Originally Posted by Bongle

safe in the knowledge that the competition is also relaxing.

but it isn't.

[Adam Freeman]

So an example of how I got "burned out" this build season.

My family scheduled a vacation on the Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday of the Stop build week....(not sure how I messed up the dates ).

Anyways...the Satuday before, I NEEDED to have all my work done before I left the shop, because otherwise the robot would have been bagged without a functional shooter.

Myself, some other mentors, and some of our most dedicated students worked from 8am Saturday, until 5am Sunday. Just to make sure we had a mechanically sound shooter, ready for the electrical team to wire.

Now, our robot was no where near completed when it went into the bag. We were probably 60% wired (cRIO, Victors wired, a few motors wired) and 70% mechanically complete (drivetrain and shooter complete, no climber, other misc stuff not completed) ....and 0% tested. Our fault, obviously for many, many reasons.

So now our robot is sitting in a bag for 3 weeks not completed, while we continued to work on our practice bot trying to get the climber working. The stop build didn't stop us from working, it just stopped us from working on our competition bot.

When we were allowed to un-bag the week of Waterford, we worked for 3 days (2-3hrs/day...or whatever it was) to get the robot capable of shooting and hanging for 10pts. We had to fight through mechanical, wiring, and software issues that were different than the practice bot.

By the time we showed up at Waterford, it felt like we had been working for a year straight to get this machine functional....and it was really only 70% functional at that point. No pre-programmed positions. Could only FCS at the 2pt goal. Auto was a mess. No climber. Very little driver practice.

This are all 100% self induced issues with biting off more than we could handle... but, if we had access to the robot for the 3 weeks prior, we probably would have been able to get it all working in that amount of time, with the same effort that we already put in.

We then continued to work the same schedule moving towards Troy, MSC, and Champs.

How inspirational was our robot at Waterford compared to the one that we showed at in St. Louis?? Because we receive a lot more comments and questions about the one at St. Louis, than the one at Waterford.

[IKE]

At what point/amount of unbag time would you stop making a practice bot?

1 Day/week?
6 hours/week (not just competition weeks, but all weeks?)
8
12?

I think there could be a neat compromise made where you could find a threshold that would essentially find a balance. Just a thought. I know of a handful of teams in Michigan that stopped building a practice bot a couple of years ago thanks to the 6 hrs, and 30 lb. allowance.

This would also balance a bit the desparity of teams that due multiple events vs. those that only do 1 later event.

[Doug G]

Originally Posted by Chris Fultz

but it isn't.

99% would if there was no withholding allowance. Get rid of withholding or at least lower it to 10-15 lbs. Save us from ourselves!!

I think some are also misinterpreting what is meant by Mentor burn-out... It is not that we are unhappy or not having fun, it is just they we have responsibilities outside of FIRST and often make sacrifices that either hurt the team or our families. Making that choice is not always fun.

[Jared Russell]

Originally Posted by Bongle

The problem with self-discipline as a solution is that self-discipline essentially means: "choose between having a non-FIRST life or being competitive".

I hear your point, but the problem is that sustainability is ALREADY a self discipline issue:

1) Teams have the same choice now, even with a stop build day. Ask 67 or 254 how many man-hours they put into perfecting their climber on the practice bot after they bagged the robot.

2) Our most successful robots ever were our simplest (mechanically anyhow). Many other teams fall into this category (1503's 2011 machine, 610's World Champion robot, etc.). Just like how cramming for a test into the wee hours of the morning has diminishing returns, there is something to be said for aiming for a simple-but-effective, master-of-one-trade robot and being able to be well rested when you work on it. If you want to build the swiss army knife of robots, well, you are asking for it.

3) The artificial constraint of not being able to touch your robot from Day X to Day Y (which seems even more arbitrary once you are in a district system and get 6 hours of access per event) actually impedes your ability to balance FIRST and life, since all direct work on the robot can only fall on certain days/hours.

[Bongle]

Originally Posted by Chris Fultz

but it isn't.

That's because the current ruleset permits them to. If the rules were "6 weeks, no withholding, only raw materials brought to competition, and driver station doesn't work between end-of-build and start-of-competition", then nobody would be building because nobody would be allowed to. You could work on your human player skills or talk about strategy, but that is (depending on the game) working at the fringes, rather than improving your shooter from 2 cycles to 5 cycles.

I've been in FIRST for 10 years now, and I've noticed a gradual increase (steep, in recent years) of how much building goes on between end-of-build and competitions starting. Under the current ruleset, if you want to be competitive, you also have to be doing that building (because the competition is). If you want to maintain friendships, jobs, or families, then you are essentially put in a situation of choosing to be competitive vs choosing to maintain those other extremely important things.

Put another way, you could put it this way:
-10% of teams will work to the absolute maximum of what the rules permit them to and enjoy it. Currently, that means a practice bot, 30lbs of robot withheld per competition.
-40% of the teams want to at least be competitive and have a shot at winning the competition. Therefore, they'll kill themselves trying to keep up to the top 10%. They'd work less, but in order to be competitive they have to be working about as much as the workerbee top 10%.
-The other 50% of teams probably pack it up at week 6. Some of them may be have really good robots, but many of them won't.

[pfreivald]

Originally Posted by Doug G

I think some are also misinterpreting what is meant by Mentor burn-out... It is not that we are unhappy or not having fun, it is just they we have responsibilities outside of FIRST and often make sacrifices that either hurt the team or our families. Making that choice is not always fun.

Amen. Burnout doesn't mean it isn't fun. I freaking love--LOVE--FIRST. But it is exhausting--and moreso the older I get; and it forces me to choose between FIRST and lots of other things that I love.

The obligations of adulthood means that "time off" usually means "time to do other types of work", and FIRST already gets in the way of other types of work. If you want to stay competitive, you meet like crazy, you push yourself, you do everything you can -- because you know everybody else is, too.

Oh, and some of us have spouses, children, pets we have an obligation to keep happy (because we own them, and that's what good pet owners do)...

I love FIRST, but I don't love only FIRST, and I don't want to do only FIRST. I also don't want to look at a group of students who say, "Mr. Freivald, we want to do whatever we can to be as good as the best teams" and say, "no, we're not going to do as much as those other teams do, because Mr. Freivald doesn't want to become suddenly single and give away half his stuff again".

Why do mentors get burned out? Because mentors have more than one passion, more than one obligation, and finite amounts of time and energy.

[Clinton Bolinger]

Originally Posted by IKE

At what point/amount of unbag time would you stop making a practice bot?

1 Day/week?
6 hours/week (not just competition weeks, but all weeks?)
8
12?

I think there could be a neat compromise made where you could find a threshold that would essentially find a balance. Just a thought. I know of a handful of teams in Michigan that stopped building a practice bot a couple of years ago thanks to the 6 hrs, and 30 lb. allowance.

This would also balance a bit the desparity of teams that due multiple events vs. those that only do 1 later event.

Personally, I think that 6 hours every week would be a nice compromise.

I would even take 4 hours every week, instead of the 6 hours of unbagging before the event (District Model).

Our team spent/wasted a lot of time on a PracticeBot, that was never used to its full potential.

Love the idea IKE.

-Clinton-