Saving Seats Epidemic

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by karomata

The bottom line is that you can only control the action of yourself and those of your own team. If teams wish to not be graciously professional and wish to save seats even though they're not supposed to, theres nothing that others are able to do about it other than control their own actions. And we really don't need to complain to FIRST about the issue, I think FIRST already has enough to worry about. Teams will do as they wish, and instead of making an issue over such a minor thing, we could just rise above their level of constructive attitude and only worry about conducting ourselves graciously and professionaly. You can see the field from anywhere in any of the stands at any of the venues, the venues were built to work that way. If there simply aren't enough seats, then just communicate that with the team reserving seats. If they continue to refuse, then you should talk to your regional committee. But other than that we really shouldn't complain to anyone about it. To sum it up, I hate to use slang, but nothing really describes the situation like it is better than saying: haters gonna hate.

But we've already left it up to the teams to police themselves. That's how we got to this mess in the first place. To just simply say: it's not that big a deal is to act as if it didn't happen when it's obviously a problem that needs to be dealt with. And if it requires FIRST to intervien personally to solve it then they should.

[Marc S.]

If FIRST is going to intervene then here's a solution that I hope for.

10 seats be saved for each teams scouts. As a scout I know that 6 people is not enough. Ideally a team ha6 people scouting data, a data entering person, a team sheet organizer, and 2 strategic scouts. You may even be able to argue 11 or 12 seats cause having a mentor is useful too. Having two rows of 5 or 6 would be nice.

Also, wouldn't this be up to individual regional/distict coordinators?

[Carolyn_Grace]

Ahem....here is my modest proposal:

It is a melancholy object to those, who walk through these great competitions, or travel from event to event as volunteers, when they see the walkways and the stairways crowded with unfortunate students of the FIRST generation, attempting to view their team's matches and importuning other teams for just a little bit of their space.

These vagrant teams, instead of enjoying prime seating, are forced to employ all their time begging for their helpless students who, as they wander aimlessly around the venue, either turn seat-thieves for want of their own space, or leave their dear native team, to fight for seating among their opponent Red Alliance, or sell themselves to the event coordinators, hoping for at least a seat for one match.

I think it is agreed by all alliances, that this prodigious number of seatless-students at the heels of their mentors, and frequently of their sponsors, is in the present deplorable state of the FIRST kingdom, a very great additional grievance; and therefore whoever could find out a fair, cheap and easy method of providing these children sound and enjoyable seating among the elite, would deserve so well of the ChiefDelphi community, as to have his statue set up for a preserver of the FIRST nation.

I shall now therefore humbly propose my own thoughts, which I hope will not be liable to the least objection.

I have been assured by a very knowing Michigander of my acquaintance in FiM, that a young healthy student well geeked, is, after 6 weeks of build season, a most delicious nourishing and wholesome food, whether fried, baked, or boiled; and I make no doubt that it will equally serve as a side to roasted corn on the cob or cheap $2 nachos in a bag at IRI.

Those teams who are populated (as I must confess, growth is inevitable) may flea the carcass; the skin of which, artificially dressed, will make admirable handouts for other teams, and team-shirts for next year...

A Modest Proposal

[Kimmeh]

Originally Posted by Carolyn_Grace

I have been assured by a very knowing Michigander of my acquaintance in FiM, that a young healthy student well geeked, is, after 6 weeks of build season, a most delicious nourishing and wholesome food, whether fried, baked, or boiled; and I make no doubt that it will equally serve as a side to roasted corn on the cob or cheap $2 nachos in a bag at IRI.

First off, I found this whole thing beautiful. I love A Modest Proposal.

But I do question if anyone is "delicious, nourishing, or wholesome" after the fare one eats for the six weeks of build season...

[Taylor]

Originally Posted by Carolyn_Grace

Ahem....here is my modest proposal:

Save the neck for me, Clark.

(oops. We're not supposed to be saving things. Nevermind.)

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Kimmeh

First off, I found this whole thing beautiful. I love A Modest Proposal.

But I do question if anyone is "delicious, nourishing, or wholesome" after the fare one eats for the six weeks of build season...

They're full of pizza and Dew. That's hardly nourishing.

[Carolyn_Grace]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

They're full of pizza and Dew. That's hardly nourishing.

There's tomato sauce on the pizza.
Anyway, that extra weight that everyone puts on during build season will mean there's extra meat on the bones. Just need to balance it out with a few carrot sticks.

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

But we've already left it up to the teams to police themselves. That's how we got to this mess in the first place. To just simply say: it's not that big a deal is to act as if it didn't happen when it's obviously a problem that needs to be dealt with. And if it requires FIRST to intervien personally to solve it then they should.

I agree. This is a classic "tragedy of the commons" problem that needs to be addressed by FIRST. Almost all of the environmental problems of our world have arisen from similar circumstances, and all require some sort of intervention to be solved.

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by Marc S.

If FIRST is going to intervene then here's a solution that I hope for.

10 seats be saved for each teams scouts. As a scout I know that 6 people is not enough. Ideally a team ha6 people scouting data, a data entering person, a team sheet organizer, and 2 strategic scouts. You may even be able to argue 11 or 12 seats cause having a mentor is useful too. Having two rows of 5 or 6 would be nice.

Also, wouldn't this be up to individual regional/distict coordinators?

I agree with this proposal.

[efoote868]

Originally Posted by Marc S.

If FIRST is going to intervene then here's a solution that I hope for.

10 seats be saved for each teams scouts. As a scout I know that 6 people is not enough. Ideally a team ha6 people scouting data, a data entering person, a team sheet organizer, and 2 strategic scouts. You may even be able to argue 11 or 12 seats cause having a mentor is useful too. Having two rows of 5 or 6 would be nice.

Also, wouldn't this be up to individual regional/distict coordinators?

2 of the 10 you listed don't need a nice view of the field. Also I'm not quite sure what you mean by "strategic scouts," but if you have all 6 robots covered then surely you'll get all interactions on the field.

[Mike Schreiber]

I find this entire topic almost laughable.

I understand we do not have the best system for seating at events. I hate to be a the pessimist, but do you really think FIRST is sitting around thinking what type of raffle system would work best for seats? Somehow I get the feeling they have bigger concerns. Not only that, but if FIRST actually needed to design an elaborate system to assign seats I would feel silly as if I was back in elementary school. Quite frankly, I'm not convinced the idea is possible nor desirable to be organized on a FIRST wide level. The variation in venues etc makes this questionably feasible.

On a humorous note how about a "15 Minute Parking Section" meant for teams to just walk up watch their match and leave.

Social experiment: Section off a small, but easily accessible area in front of the field, with a sign that looks official saying "These seats are available to teams while their robot is playing on the field, please remain no longer than is appropriate." See what happens.

In all seriousness you should probably ask somebody in some sort of position of power before you try something like that, but I would like to see how trustworthy our fellow FIRSTers are.

[Pendulum^-1]

Originally Posted by ICanCountTo19

Social experiment: Section off a small, but easily accessible area in front of the field, with a sign that looks official saying "These seats are available to teams while their robot is playing on the field, please remain no longer than is appropriate." See what happens.

In all seriousness you should probably ask somebody in some sort of position of power before you try something like that, but I would like to see how trustworthy our fellow FIRSTers are.

Looks like we are coming full circle. My earlier post (well hidden as one post among the 130 other posts) is nearly identical to this idea. Simple, straightforward in execution. Maybe several of us should petition our local regionals and/or our leading teams at our regionals to organize such an area, and see how people like it.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...5&postcount=52

The only thing I would add to the post: Cheering section people should stay seated during their match, so others can see the field.

Simple, simple, simple. Whatever we propose has to be nearly zero effort from the event staff.

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by ICanCountTo19

I find this entire topic almost laughable.

I understand we do not have the best system for seating at events. I hate to be a the pessimist, but do you really think FIRST is sitting around thinking what type of raffle system would work best for seats? Somehow I get the feeling they have bigger concerns. Not only that, but if FIRST actually needed to design an elaborate system to assign seats I would feel silly as if I was back in elementary school. Quite frankly, I'm not convinced the idea is possible nor desirable to be organized on a FIRST wide level. The variation in venues etc makes this questionably feasible.

I suspect at the regional level that this can be left to the local committees. However, I think it could be a bigger issue if outside spectators show up in greater numbers. Isn't Kammen's aim to make this as visible as other sports?

The real issue is in St. Louis where the most motivated teams come together. And again, this is an important issue if Kammen truly wants to spread the popularity of this program. On the other hand, in my experience these types of issues are never addressed ahead of time until a true crisis arises, at least in part because many people dismiss its importance early on. So we'll see how this plays out--it doesn't mean that I and others need to sit back complacently simply because a solution isn't likely in the near term.

[Citrus Dad]

Originally Posted by efoote868

2 of the 10 you listed don't need a nice view of the field. Also I'm not quite sure what you mean by "strategic scouts," but if you have all 6 robots covered then surely you'll get all interactions on the field.

Those two extra usually are needed to manage the scouting system on site--remember that WiFi is illegal in the venue and that the system either needs to be hardwired together or paper passed to a central person after every match. (I'm curious as to your alternative proposal for data management with only 6 people sitting together.) Also in our experience, 6 scouts can only follow a portion of what happens on the field. We had 2 additional strategic scouts and what they provided was the extra part that made our alliance selection strategy work so successfully in Curie. One additional point--the team needs to be able to rotate scouts--there's no way that anyone can pay attention straight through for hours without a break. 10 is a minimum.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by Citrus Dad

Those two extra usually are needed to manage the scouting system on site--remember that WiFi is illegal in the venue and that the system either needs to be hardwired together or paper passed to a central person after every match. (I'm curious as to your alternative proposal for data management with only 6 people sitting together.) Also in our experience, 6 scouts can only follow a portion of what happens on the field. We had 2 additional strategic scouts and what they provided was the extra part that made our alliance selection strategy work so successfully in Curie. One additional point--the team needs to be able to rotate scouts--there's no way that anyone can pay attention straight through for hours without a break. 10 is a minimum.

I agree and we do the same, but do all 10 don't have to be in those seats at once if you're rotating them? We'd be fine with 8 seats where people could switch in and out.