The Chief Delphi opinion

[simplyTired]

I think what a lot of people here on this site don’t entirely get is the perspective of teams that aren’t well represented here. A lot of teams and people simply say “ask the elite teams how they work and then work really hard to get to their level.” After almost 6 years of FRC experience, I have to say that it’s not quite this simple as many people here make it out to be. Coming from a team that repeatedly finds itself struggling to compete successfully and make eliminations, it becomes more and more difficult to motivate students. I’ve had some students come in with extremely bright outlooks and such great ambitions on how the team can perform, but over the course of 4 years of being constantly worn out from the build season and then broken down during competitions, many want little to nothing to do with FIRST after it is all over. I’ve pushed kids to apply for more and more grants and talk to more companies about sponsorships, but it’s difficult to acquire new sponsors or even retain old ones when you can’t compete on the same level as many teams. Even with mentors, many of the mentors that we meet are discouraged by our performance and eventually move on after just one year of commitment. I think there is something to be said about working to attain a goal and striving for a new level, and I don’t suggest that the “elite” teams are doing anything unfair, I just think that this idea that anyone can get to that level is a bit ignorant of the struggles that some teams face year after year.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by simplyTired

I think what a lot of people here on this site don’t entirely get is the perspective of teams that aren’t well represented here. A lot of teams and people simply say “ask the elite teams how they work and then work really hard to get to their level.” After almost 6 years of FRC experience, I have to say that it’s not quite this simple as many people here make it out to be. Coming from a team that repeatedly finds itself struggling to compete successfully and make eliminations, it becomes more and more difficult to motivate students. I’ve had some students come in with extremely bright outlooks and such great ambitions on how the team can perform, but over the course of 4 years of being constantly worn out from the build season and then broken down during competitions, many want little to nothing to do with FIRST after it is all over. I’ve pushed kids to apply for more and more grants and talk to more companies about sponsorships, but it’s difficult to acquire new sponsors or even retain old ones when you can’t compete on the same level as many teams. Even with mentors, many of the mentors that we meet are discouraged by our performance and eventually move on after just one year of commitment. I think there is something to be said about working to attain a goal and striving for a new level, and I don’t suggest that the “elite” teams are doing anything unfair, I just think that this idea that anyone can get to that level is a bit ignorant of the struggles that some teams face year after year.

Hi simplyTired,

Do you have any ideas on what CD or the community at large might be able to do to help? You're correct, I for one don't have a strong understanding of how we actually broke that cycle. (We started in 2005 and our first elim appearance was 2010--still a losing season until 2011's minibot.) It really does feel like just hard work, but I don't think I was actually working harder than before that time.

You may want a thread of your own.

[Nemo]

One thing that Chief Delphi should avoid is the following scenario, which I have seen play out on another set of forums, much to its detriment:

1) In the golden age of the forum, users hash out a bunch of lively discussions on a variety of interesting topics. After a while, the general outlines of those arguments become pretty well known to the active population, and it isn't necessary to repeat them ad nauseum.
2) Time passes, and now there are a lot of new users who haven't read the old arguments. They start making some of the same suggestions and asking the same questions. In many cases, those suggestions have already been examined and found to be lacking, and some of the things might have been tried in the past with poor results.
3) The remaining veterans are tired of seeing the same suggestions. They pounce on new people who make those suggestions, sometimes not being very polite about it.
4) New people get scared away and the forum stagnates. Now there are a bunch of crotchety, know-it-all, multi-year veterans and very few new people, and the new people who do show up don't tend to stick around very long.

That situation doesn't describe Chief Delphi, because the people tend to be a lot nicer here. But it's a useful cautionary tale.

A while back somebody on CD commented on the large percentage of users who are in their first or second year at any given time. It's easy to forget that when so many of the posts we read are from veterans with many years of experience.

Certainly, new users should practice some basic etiquette, and I think I can condense that down to two points: 1) spend a bit of your own time researching before asking others to spend their time answering questions; 2) Avoid judging other teams.

I think veteran users should keep the following in mind: 1) New users are going to get intimidated if you throw your weight around, even if you aren't doing it intentionally. If you're trying to make a point, it's more effective and less off-putting if you present logic and evidence rather than emotionally charged language. 2) Feel free to privately roll your eyes when you see a naive post from somebody who hasn't been around as long as you, but please be polite if you respond; a snotty response doesn't really impress or help anybody, whereas a quick link to a pertinent thread and a mention of the search function is probably going to get the point across.

[synth3tk]

I think I must have misinterpreted the original post.