The District System

[dodar]

Originally Posted by Gregor

Well by that logic it's unfair to give teams 2 competitions for the price of one.

IDK, that may be their logic; or it might not be. I personally believe that it is unfair for teams to be able to go to 2 competitions for the price that others get 1.

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by dodar

IDK, that may be their logic; or it might not be. I personally believe that it is unfair for teams to be able to go to 2 competitions for the price that others get 1.

I see it as they're leading the charge to get everyone two competitions for the price of one. If they weren't allowed to do it until everyone could, it would never happen.

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by dodar

I personally believe that it is unfair for teams to be able to go to 2 competitions for the price that others get 1.

Really?

You do know, of course, that the $5,000 entry fee does NOT go towards the costs of running a competition, right?

So what you're saying is that it's unfair if the organizers are efficient with their money and can run two* districts for the price of a regional. Not sure I can buy into that.

*or several.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by DonRotolo

Really?

You do know, of course, that the $5,000 entry fee does NOT go towards the costs of running a competition, right?

So what you're saying is that it's unfair if the organizers are efficient with their money and can run two* districts for the price of a regional. Not sure I can buy into that.

*or several.

I mean from the team's perspective.(this whole thread has been from the team's perspective) Allowing only a portion of teams to attend competitions at half the price that other teams can is pretty much saying that certain teams' seasons are worth more than others'.

[Joe G.]

Originally Posted by dodar

I personally believe that it is unfair for teams to be able to go to 2 competitions for the price that others get 1.

I have never understood the "fairness" argument against the district system. Of course it's "unfair." It's a new, improved, system designed primarily to drive costs down, and I would hope that this serves as an incentive for many regions to adopt this new, improved, cheaper system. Don't drag other regions down just because yours isn't there yet.

[nickcvet89]

I was hesitant at first but the cost reduction outweighs the negatives. You pay $6500 for 24 matches(12 in each event) plus another $4000 for an additional 10-12 at District Championships (as was case at MAR). 36 matches in one year is hard to argue compared to 8-10 matches that certain regionals have. The districts are much more low key with fewer teams per event. This far outweighs the past costs where you would pay around $6000 for 8-10 matches, if you lose 4, it becomes hard for certain teams to win and you go home with a sour taste in you mouth. Spending 6 weeks to build a robot just to have it lose within a day. With districts, you can at least have another shot.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by Joe G.

I have never understood the "fairness" argument against the district system. Of course it's "unfair." It's a new, improved, system designed primarily to drive costs down, and I would hope that this serves as an incentive for many regions to adopt this new, improved, cheaper system. Don't drag other regions down just because yours isn't there yet.

Just because I dont think it's fair doesnt mean I dont want them to have it. Life aint fair, this is just another life lesson FIRST will teach kids. Do I think it is unfair both for an overall experience and a competitive experience, yes; but do I think it would also be unfair to not allow FiM and MAR to not do this just to make everyone else feel equal, yes.

[KrazyCarl92]

For my team and the others in the New York capital region, it is difficult to say what our "area" is. We are located 3 hours north of NYC, 3 hours south of Montreal, 4 hours east of Buffalo, and 3 hours west of Boston. So we're kinda stuck in this middle of nowhere/equidistant from everywhere place that requires us to travel to find any FRC events.

The result is that all but 1 or 2 of the teams primarily go to New England events like WPI, Connecticut, or Manchester because they are closest. Most of us would call New England "our region" and the New England Regionals have always treated us as their own.

Now with New England going to districts in 2014 (been told this with "100% certainty", not trying to spread rumors), this will almost certainly result in precluding us from competing in New England. There was a proposal brought up at one point in discussions that might allow our teams to still compete in New England, but we have heard that FIRST has dropped the banhammer on that. While it is disappointing for us to be locked out of the place where we have competed for the better parts of 22 seasons, I do understand that the lines need to be drawn somewhere.

Luckily, in an effort to accommodate our teams' situations, an Albany, NY regional event has been confirmed for 2014! It's exciting that FIRST realizes the need to give the fringe teams a place to compete. We will miss competing with the friends we've made over the decades, but we are looking forward to the opportunity to grow FRC closer to our real home and meet other teams we hadn't had the opportunity to compete with before. And hey, maybe even some NEFIRST teams could make their way to Albany next year!

The district system is a mixed bag for us. I was ecstatic at the possibility of being included in an NE district model; the sooner I can get more matches and better competition for the same amount of money, the better. However since it appears as though we may not be included in the NEFIRST system, it does have its setbacks for our team.

That being said, I for one am pleased and impressed that FIRST has recognized the need to host events for us fringe teams to give us an avenue to compete. Rest be assured: they are not forgetting teams that have reasons to dislike the district system. They are simply transitioning to a newer system that should, on the whole, serve the organization, its members, and its teams better.

[mdituri]

Originally Posted by KrazyCarl92

Luckily, in an effort to accommodate our teams' situations, an Albany, NY regional event has been confirmed for 2014!

Do you know where and what week? I hope there are veteran NASA grants available to the new regional.

[Gdeaver]

For all those teams that are in regions looking at adopting the district model this is not something that just happens, First does not do it for you. Who is MAR? MAR is a non-profit corporation that produces the events. We are MAR. All teams in the MAR territory collectively produce these events. We pay for them, we volunteer and run them. It is allot of work to make it happen and it only works if all teams come together and make it happen. One more time - First does not do it for you, First does not fund it, You collectively have to do it. You collectively through the District non-profit sign a contract with First to produce these events. It is a tremendous volume of work to do this and it only works if you all come together and support it. It will become your family. If teams do not come together and make it work, it will be a failure. Are you willing to take one more weekend off and volunteer at a district? Are you willing to become a ref, an inspector, a field reseter? Will you attend District meetings and help on committees? If you don't like this and enough members of other teams feel the same then the risk of failure is high. Teams need to discuss their part and the demands of become a district model team.

[Pault]

Originally Posted by Gdeaver

For all those teams that are in regions looking at adopting the district model this is not something that just happens, First does not do it for you. Who is MAR? MAR is a non-profit corporation that produces the events. We are MAR. All teams in the MAR territory collectively produce these events. We pay for them, we volunteer and run them. It is allot of work to make it happen and it only works if all teams come together and make it happen. One more time - First does not do it for you, First does not fund it, You collectively have to do it. You collectively through the District non-profit sign a contract with First to produce these events. It is a tremendous volume of work to do this and it only works if you all come together and support it. It will become your family. If teams do not come together and make it work, it will be a failure. Are you willing to take one more weekend off and volunteer at a district? Are you willing to become a ref, an inspector, a field reseter? Will you attend District meetings and help on committees? If you don't like this and enough members of other teams feel the same then the risk of failure is high. Teams need to discuss their part and the demands of become a district model team.

Thanks, that was really good advice. I never really thought about districts in this way, although my team does want to get more involved in NEFIRST (New England Districts).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One thing that I have not really heard much about is how the robot unbagging period compares to the Thursday of a regional. Is it bad that you have less time with the robot, or is it better because you are in your shop and free to do it whenever?

[JohnBoucher]

Originally Posted by DevenStonow

This year in particular it was nice to know that, with the slightly different pyramid heights, we knew 100% we were playing on the same field for 2/3 events, and will for all our offseasons.

Can I get more information about this? How much difference and how/when did you know?

[Steven Donow]

Originally Posted by JohnBoucher

Can I get more information about this? How much difference and how/when did you know?

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking. When I mention slightly different pyramid heights, I'm simply talking about the FIRST-standard allowed tolerances(ie. it wasn't like one pyramid was 2 inches off). Knowing the heights of the pyramid came from the allowed time to measure field elements, as mentioned in the manual this year.

[AGPapa]

Originally Posted by JohnBoucher

Can I get more information about this? How much difference and how/when did you know?

All of the pyramids for every field were at slightly different heights. That's why most events had a period where you could measure the field. Because MAR used the same field for nearly every event, you could know the pyramid's height before you went to the event. Furthermore, it was always consistent so climbers didn't need to change their mechanisms for the small variations.

Originally Posted by Pault

One thing that I have not really heard much about is how the robot unbagging period compares to the Thursday of a regional. Is it bad that you have less time with the robot, or is it better because you are in your shop and free to do it whenever?

I hate Thursday. Its the biggest waste of time. Nothing significant ever gets done. I hated ever second of Thursday at MAR Champs. The unbagging periods are infinitely more useful.

[JohnBoucher]

Originally Posted by DevenStonow

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking. When I mention slightly different pyramid heights, I'm simply talking about the FIRST-standard allowed tolerances(ie. it wasn't like one pyramid was 2 inches off). Knowing the heights of the pyramid came from the allowed time to measure field elements, as mentioned in the manual this year.

The reference was made that it was known for 2 out of 3 events, the pyramids would be the same. I am just asking what the difference was and how you knew it before the event?