Going to a FIRST event is apparently not a field trip

[jcbc]

The National Association of Secondary School Principals has a "National Advisory List of Approved Student Contests and Activities" and FRC is on the list. (The Program Guidelines are here.) I don't know if it will help convince your school's principal and administration, but you should make sure that they know about the list. Making sure that everyone else involved (parents, school district, 4-H organization, etc.) is also aware of it is important too. The fact that the trip was approved by the school district before it was taken is important to point out too.

We are no longer sponsored by our school district and we have students from several different schools (and school districts). We have successfully gotten absences excused for competition days, thanks to our logistics mentor working closely with the various administrations.

[cmrnpizzo14]

Our team is from multiple private schools so we have not had this problem. For clarity I would, and maybe others would as well, appreciate you highlighting exactly what the issue is. Specifically, why has your team not been approved. Is it because you are 4H and not technically school? Is it because FIRST is not "academic enough" or something like that?

I apologize if these are questions I really shouldn't have to ask but I have never had to deal with this being at a private school.

[CLandrum3081]

As far as I know, the "head guy", or Superintendent, trumps the school admin. The Superintendent is the boss of the administration - if he's approved it, that's it. If a school administration is going against his actions without approval or some other process, that's big trouble for them.

As for unexcused absences... It depends on what the school counts as unexcused, how unexcused absences are made up, and how students are notified of unexcused absences.

In our school district, students are notified within 24 hours of their unexcused absence so a parent can call in if they forgot. They have the trimester to make them up, but it's once you have more than 4 unexcused absences that problems start (1 class with 4 unexcused absences = F). The way we make them up, if need be, is by staying after school for an hour. The school is also lenient about what counts as excused - if a parent calls you in, for whatever reason, you're excused. If that's your district's policy, as stupid as it sounds, you may have to have the students' parents call them out every day of the competition next year. Stupid things have happened - a sub has marked me unexcused absent for a class before because he marked the absent person whose name was above mine present and switched us. Had I already had unexcused absences, I would have had to make that absence up after school, no matter how unfair it was.

Now, how is it different for your district? Are you not notified than an absences is unexcused until the end of the term? In that case, the school is, in my opinion, pretty much making an attempt to screw its students over. Is your school strict about what counts as excused? (Ex. only if the student is actually sick or has an appointment or funeral, etc) It kind of sounds like it.

So, for this to suddenly be a problem now, there are a few combinations of factors. It could entirely be that (a) your district has a terrible excused absence policy, (b) your school does not have effective methods of making up absences, and/or (c) you were not notified the absences were excused with enough time to make them up, which is crummy (keeping it clean). Otherwise, if you knew for months and didn't act until graduation came up, that would be crummy of you. However, this is hardly the typical action of honor students active in FIRST. That's not to say some FIRST students aren't lazy, but you get the point.

I don't know if your situation is like that above, but there must be some way to work around it. I'm not for skipping class. When I miss class due to illness (or robotics), I always make up for lost time. And it sounds like you're the type of students that will work their butts off to get caught up in class once an absence happens.

Talk to the Superintendent and school board. Mention any of the points above if they apply. Assert that despite the Superintendent's approval, the administration is not cooperating.

Originally Posted by jcbc

The National Association of Secondary School Principals has a "National Advisory List of Approved Student Contests and Activities" and FRC is on the list. (The Program Guidelines are here.) I don't know if it will help convince your school's principal and administration, but you should make sure that they know about the list.

Bring the list or at least a URL.

Affirm that preventing smart and ambitious seniors from walking at graduation because they were at a FIRST event is wrong. WRONG.

(I wouldn't mention this since the reaction might be negative, but in my opinion, FIRST is much more of a learning experience than years' worth of traditional school.)

I'm not for one pressuring a school district this way (though it is so much nicer when they cooperate ), but it really looks like you have no other choice.

So, the long and short of it... I don't know the unexcused policy, but it sounds pretty bogus. Talk to school board and superintendent. I would give the admin the list, but it looks like they're beyond help.

C

[dtengineering]

Hopefully things will be cleared up quickly.

In the event that it all goes sideways and the principal says, "you can't attend the ceremonies." Take it in stride.

It sounds like you will all have some much more significant graduation ceremonies in your future... being banned from this one will give you a great tale to tell your grandkids, especially if you handle it with class and style.

I'd suggest building a little mock stage on the nearest piece of public land to the entrance to the building where the ceremony is being held, putting up your own grad banner, and inviting the media to see three top students who were banned from grad for attending a world robotics championship cross their own stage. Get some of the other team members... perhaps some of the community mentors... to dress up and give you a diploma. Then go play robot frisbee golf.

You might not only end up making the principal realize that they are being an idiot, thus clearing the way for your younger teammates to attend robotics competitions in the future, but also get some great publicity for FIRST and your team.

And have that great story to tell your grandkids (well, and your roommates at university...). After all, almost everyone goes to grad, but how many people get banned for doing something good?

Don't fight bureaucratic morons... embrace them! Humour and publicity will take care of the rest.

Jason

[Ian Curtis]

Originally Posted by dtengineering

Hopefully things will be cleared up quickly.

In the event that it all goes sideways and the principal says, "you can't attend the ceremonies." Take it in stride.

It sounds like you will all have some much more significant graduation ceremonies in your future... being banned from this one will give you a great tale to tell your grandkids, especially if you handle it with class and style.

This is really great advice. The thing about graduations too is that they aren't for you, they're really for your parents.

When I was a freshman in high school, one of my good friends missed a significant amount of school to ski competitively. At the time, the school had a policy that 15 missed days for any reason in a semester would automatically result in failing all of your classes, regardless of your grades. His parents stood up to the principal, and when the dust settled he had a 4.0 taking straight honors classes. Needless to say, he passed (and coincidentally is graduating from MIT next weekend!). I hope your administrators come around too.

[mdituri]

What I find interesting about your post is that you have the opportunity to be on a school related FIRST team, yet you choose to be on the 4H team. The administration may view this similar to someone playing a club sport rather than the school's sponsored team. While you see it as we both went to the same place, you certainly took different routes. Another thing you failed to mention what you're attendance policy is...how many absences vs unexcused absences. Did these members already have ten absences from school and these just put them over the line? Your parent has the right to pull you out of school at any point, but the school ultimately makes the decision about excused v unexcused. Also, I question the rookie status of a team that has multiple members who may have been on a FRC team before. You did not say whether this group participated in the school sponsored team at some prior point. Your school may not want to set a precedent for future years that choosing that non school team is acceptable. (Just playing devil's advocate).

[Jimmy Nichols]

Originally Posted by jcbc

The National Association of Secondary School Principals has a "National Advisory List of Approved Student Contests and Activities" and FRC is on the list. (The Program Guidelines are here.) I don't know if it will help convince your school's principal and administration, but you should make sure that they know about the list. Making sure that everyone else involved (parents, school district, 4-H organization, etc.) is also aware of it is important too. The fact that the trip was approved by the school district before it was taken is important to point out too.

We are no longer sponsored by our school district and we have students from several different schools (and school districts). We have successfully gotten absences excused for competition days, thanks to our logistics mentor working closely with the various administrations.

Wow, as an engineering mentor, I didn't know this list existed. I will be pointing this out to our other students and schools as we are picking up 2 more students from different school districts next year.