Going to a FIRST event is apparently not a field trip

[Sam Drake]

Before our team went on the trips we were approved by our school district that they would be counted as field trips and we wouldn't have to make them up. After returning from nationals we encountered a problem. Our team is under 4H as a rookie team, not the local career center like the other local team. The head guy of the school district has approved the field trips but the principal and administration at our school is being difficult. We have been fighting this battle for 3 weeks and now at the 11th hour they have given up. All three seniors on our team (including myself) are high honor graduates, (we have GPAs of 4.25 or higher) and one of us is in position to be the valedictorian. All three of us are in danger of not walking on graduation day. I just want to know how the rest of the community feels about this, why can't 4H teams be excused from school but the career center team can? We all went to the same place, and yet only we are being punished.
Thanks,
Samantha

[IKE]

Originally Posted by Sam Drake

Before our team went on the trips we were approved by our school district that they would be counted as field trips and we wouldn't have to make them up. After returning from nationals we encountered a problem. Our team is under 4H as a rookie team, not the local career center like the other local team. The head guy of the school district has approved the field trips but the principal and administration at our school is being difficult. We have been fighting this battle for 3 weeks and now at the 11th hour they have given up. All three seniors on our team (including myself) are high honor graduates, (we have GPAs of 4.25 or higher) and one of us is in position to be the valedictorian. All three of us are in danger of not walking on graduation day. I just want to know how the rest of the community feels about this, why can't 4H teams be excused from school but the career center team can? We all went to the same place, and yet only we are being punished.
Thanks,
Samantha

So what options do you have? Your first couple of sentences make it sound like you just need to go a couple extra days. Your last couple of sentences makes it sound like honor students might not graduate?

[pfreivald]

I suggest circumventing the administration and talking directly to the school board.

[SenorZ]

Wow. That's terrible.
As a teacher, and new to running a robotics team, I had to learn the ropes when it came to getting trips approved. Luckily the district folks are very supportive of us having a robotics team (maybe having Boeing down the street helps).
I've still had to deal with people in our office questioning the "excuse" for the absence, but I got an assistant principle to approve all my requests.

I'd say you're best bet is to have any effected student write a report about the educational value of the FIRST Robotics and event attendance. Set up a meeting with an AP or the Principal and present your reports. If that doesn't sway the school admin, go to the district/school board.

[sanddrag]

Give us the e-mail address of these folks to send them a barrage of support letters for your students? It's scenarios like this where bureaucracy has turned to idiocracy. I often say "If schools were in business, they'd be out of business." Now I don't know your students, but based on what you're telling us, this closed-box thinking of your school administration seems like they need to see the light of day on FIRST robotics.

[Jimmy Nichols]

Our trips are approved by the school board directly so that the students receive excused absence. Although we have students from other schools that usually choose not to travel as it isn't considered a field trip by their school since the program isn't directly associated to their school.

Seems to me you, in essence, have 2 separate teams, the 4-H team and the Career Center Team. Therefore the rules are different. If your 4H team is associated with the school, then I would assume you would need to have a separate approval for that team. If you are not connected to the school then I would agree that the absence's would be unexcused since you aren't an official school associated team/program. It would be the same as missing or having you parents sign you out of school. Sometimes the rules aren't what we like, but we need to learn to work with them while, maybe, at the same time working to change them.

[rlowe61]

Originally Posted by Sam Drake

Before our team went on the trips we were approved by our school district that they would be counted as field trips and we wouldn't have to make them up. After returning from nationals we encountered a problem. Our team is under 4H as a rookie team, not the local career center like the other local team. The head guy of the school district has approved the field trips but the principal and administration at our school is being difficult. We have been fighting this battle for 3 weeks and now at the 11th hour they have given up. All three seniors on our team (including myself) are high honor graduates, (we have GPAs of 4.25 or higher) and one of us is in position to be the valedictorian. All three of us are in danger of not walking on graduation day. I just want to know how the rest of the community feels about this, why can't 4H teams be excused from school but the career center team can? We all went to the same place, and yet only we are being punished.
Thanks,
Samantha

OK, I've highlighted the issue. Seems "The Head Guy" and the "Principal and Administration" need to get together (Real Fast) and iron this out. The Principal needs to do research on FIRST and the benifits of it and give you all credit where credit is due.

[FrankJ]

Sounds like the board & the principal are in a turf war. (I am sure the principal is calling it "Academic Integrity"). Unfortunately the fix involves a time machine. You need to sell the principal on the educational value of the program for next year. A big advantage if your does Chairmans stuff in addition to building the robot. Don't expect the principal (& others) to do the research on their own.

How do I feel? Work missed should be made up. Time should be allowed for this. The absences should be excused following the same policy as other field trips & sporting events. They should turn the basketball gym into a double FRC field.

We have run into the the problem at a lower level with our principal strongly supporting the team & some teachers being very rigid with assignment & test dates.

Sorry since is not much help for your predicament.

[Bob Steele]

I would suggest that you get your parents involved quickly and have them talk to their elected board members. Parents hold a lot of weight in the school system. (As well they should... they are the ultimate customer of the school... or more correctly, the students are the customers....)

More school systems should think about things from this perspective...

By the way, next year get this all set up before hand.... it is necessary to jump through all of the hoops before you go to an event and miss school. Start in the fall...get the required permissions then....

[jcbc]

The National Association of Secondary School Principals has a "National Advisory List of Approved Student Contests and Activities" and FRC is on the list. (The Program Guidelines are here.) I don't know if it will help convince your school's principal and administration, but you should make sure that they know about the list. Making sure that everyone else involved (parents, school district, 4-H organization, etc.) is also aware of it is important too. The fact that the trip was approved by the school district before it was taken is important to point out too.

We are no longer sponsored by our school district and we have students from several different schools (and school districts). We have successfully gotten absences excused for competition days, thanks to our logistics mentor working closely with the various administrations.

[cmrnpizzo14]

Our team is from multiple private schools so we have not had this problem. For clarity I would, and maybe others would as well, appreciate you highlighting exactly what the issue is. Specifically, why has your team not been approved. Is it because you are 4H and not technically school? Is it because FIRST is not "academic enough" or something like that?

I apologize if these are questions I really shouldn't have to ask but I have never had to deal with this being at a private school.

[Ether]

It wouldn't surprise me if the issue is liability.

[CLandrum3081]

As far as I know, the "head guy", or Superintendent, trumps the school admin. The Superintendent is the boss of the administration - if he's approved it, that's it. If a school administration is going against his actions without approval or some other process, that's big trouble for them.

As for unexcused absences... It depends on what the school counts as unexcused, how unexcused absences are made up, and how students are notified of unexcused absences.

In our school district, students are notified within 24 hours of their unexcused absence so a parent can call in if they forgot. They have the trimester to make them up, but it's once you have more than 4 unexcused absences that problems start (1 class with 4 unexcused absences = F). The way we make them up, if need be, is by staying after school for an hour. The school is also lenient about what counts as excused - if a parent calls you in, for whatever reason, you're excused. If that's your district's policy, as stupid as it sounds, you may have to have the students' parents call them out every day of the competition next year. Stupid things have happened - a sub has marked me unexcused absent for a class before because he marked the absent person whose name was above mine present and switched us. Had I already had unexcused absences, I would have had to make that absence up after school, no matter how unfair it was.

Now, how is it different for your district? Are you not notified than an absences is unexcused until the end of the term? In that case, the school is, in my opinion, pretty much making an attempt to screw its students over. Is your school strict about what counts as excused? (Ex. only if the student is actually sick or has an appointment or funeral, etc) It kind of sounds like it.

So, for this to suddenly be a problem now, there are a few combinations of factors. It could entirely be that (a) your district has a terrible excused absence policy, (b) your school does not have effective methods of making up absences, and/or (c) you were not notified the absences were excused with enough time to make them up, which is crummy (keeping it clean). Otherwise, if you knew for months and didn't act until graduation came up, that would be crummy of you. However, this is hardly the typical action of honor students active in FIRST. That's not to say some FIRST students aren't lazy, but you get the point.

I don't know if your situation is like that above, but there must be some way to work around it. I'm not for skipping class. When I miss class due to illness (or robotics), I always make up for lost time. And it sounds like you're the type of students that will work their butts off to get caught up in class once an absence happens.

Talk to the Superintendent and school board. Mention any of the points above if they apply. Assert that despite the Superintendent's approval, the administration is not cooperating.

Originally Posted by jcbc

The National Association of Secondary School Principals has a "National Advisory List of Approved Student Contests and Activities" and FRC is on the list. (The Program Guidelines are here.) I don't know if it will help convince your school's principal and administration, but you should make sure that they know about the list.

Bring the list or at least a URL.

Affirm that preventing smart and ambitious seniors from walking at graduation because they were at a FIRST event is wrong. WRONG.

(I wouldn't mention this since the reaction might be negative, but in my opinion, FIRST is much more of a learning experience than years' worth of traditional school.)

I'm not for one pressuring a school district this way (though it is so much nicer when they cooperate ), but it really looks like you have no other choice.

So, the long and short of it... I don't know the unexcused policy, but it sounds pretty bogus. Talk to school board and superintendent. I would give the admin the list, but it looks like they're beyond help.

C

[dtengineering]

Hopefully things will be cleared up quickly.

In the event that it all goes sideways and the principal says, "you can't attend the ceremonies." Take it in stride.

It sounds like you will all have some much more significant graduation ceremonies in your future... being banned from this one will give you a great tale to tell your grandkids, especially if you handle it with class and style.

I'd suggest building a little mock stage on the nearest piece of public land to the entrance to the building where the ceremony is being held, putting up your own grad banner, and inviting the media to see three top students who were banned from grad for attending a world robotics championship cross their own stage. Get some of the other team members... perhaps some of the community mentors... to dress up and give you a diploma. Then go play robot frisbee golf.

You might not only end up making the principal realize that they are being an idiot, thus clearing the way for your younger teammates to attend robotics competitions in the future, but also get some great publicity for FIRST and your team.

And have that great story to tell your grandkids (well, and your roommates at university...). After all, almost everyone goes to grad, but how many people get banned for doing something good?

Don't fight bureaucratic morons... embrace them! Humour and publicity will take care of the rest.

Jason

[Jimmy Nichols]

Originally Posted by jcbc

The National Association of Secondary School Principals has a "National Advisory List of Approved Student Contests and Activities" and FRC is on the list. (The Program Guidelines are here.) I don't know if it will help convince your school's principal and administration, but you should make sure that they know about the list. Making sure that everyone else involved (parents, school district, 4-H organization, etc.) is also aware of it is important too. The fact that the trip was approved by the school district before it was taken is important to point out too.

We are no longer sponsored by our school district and we have students from several different schools (and school districts). We have successfully gotten absences excused for competition days, thanks to our logistics mentor working closely with the various administrations.

Wow, as an engineering mentor, I didn't know this list existed. I will be pointing this out to our other students and schools as we are picking up 2 more students from different school districts next year.