[FRC Blog] Frank Answers Fridays: June 7, 2013

[jeser#1772]

Originally Posted by EricH

OTOH, Brazil did something similar at about the same time, I think with a few more teams. That didn't work out for more than a couple of years--there is now no Brazil Regional, and fewer teams. Other than Israel, there are no regionals south of the U.S. border (Hawaii doesn't count as south of the border) at this time.

In Brazil we have a lot of challenges to turn The FIRST in a strong program.

- our school season starts at march and ends at december (we spend all summer vacations on the build season) and the schools are closed at summer.

-Money: $5.000 for registration in U.S is realy not the same even $5.000 in Brazil, and the exchange literally changes it everytime (we can get 5.000 dollar today and tomorrow this can have the half of the value).

-Kit Of Parts: All brazilian teams, or pick they KOP at a local kick off in U.S and bring at the plane (ilegal for brazilians law) or need to wait a month for receive by mail with a big Importation brazilian tax (some times you can buy a car only with the tax) , (for us 1772 we don´t use KOP anymore, we pick it at the first event and use in the next year)

for this and much more the first 2 events in Brazil had problems.


by the same way, we (1772), 383, 1156, 1382 and 1860 still strong in FRC, now we need to use this "know how" for solve this problems and expand for more teams.

We probably will have more 1 to 3 teams with us at orlando regional next year, and 1772 and 383 are working STRONGLY together for have a regional in Brazil next year or 2015

[rachelholladay]

The deep south is one of those regions that is not ready for districts. Just saying, it will take a long time before there are enough teams in the area to support it. We've wondered if we could compete in the Texas districts, but its quite a drive from where many of us are.

[AllenGregoryIV]

Originally Posted by rachelholladay

The deep south is one of those regions that is not ready for districts. Just saying, it will take a long time before there are enough teams in the area to support it. We've wondered if we could compete in the Texas districts, but its quite a drive from where many of us are.

On the division slide that Frank references it groups LA with OK, MS, and AR. That would be interesting. It's not that much bigger of a distance between the furthest teams than what we can expect when Texas goes to the district system. It's also 106 teams and 3 regionals now.

[Boe]

I would think that one of the next district regions to be set up will be Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Iowa that would. Although im not sure how many teams FIRST is envisioning each district to have.

[Jon Stratis]

Oh, I personally doubt it the MN area will be going any time soon... we may have the team density, but there are a lot more factors than that!

[Nuttyman54]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

Bar, you're asking for too much too soon. This type of detail doesn't really need to be answered right now. Districts won't just pop up all over in one or even two seasons. When the issue does become more relevant, I'm sure Frank will provide the answers.

One of the things I'm interested to see is how the transition will happen. My biggest concern is how they will deal with teams in areas where districts don't make sense, in the interim before they have a standardized model with cross-travel and a way to incorporate teams that don't fit into district regions. For example, PNW and NE are going to districts for 2014, and the Ontario region is likely to change to districts at some point as well. Depending on how the district borders are defined, this could leave teams in Montreal, BC, Alberta and other parts of Canada with at most one "local" event. As more regions move to districts, more pockets will appear where teams exist, but aren't populous enough for their own region, but don't fit well into neighboring regions.

I'm sure some of the people that emailed Frank asked about this, and I'm sure FIRST has a plan for how to accommodate, but I'm curious to see what that plan is. I'm guessing a lot more of these details will emerge after the 2014 season, which they have had time to evaluate the PNW and NE district pilots and make some decisions on a standardized district model.

[Ernst]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

Oh, I personally doubt it the MN area will be going any time soon... we may have the team density, but there are a lot more factors than that!

What are some of the other factors at play? Based on the Where in the World is FIRST map, it looks like there are teams clustered around the Twin Cities and then scattered fairly evenly though the rest of the state. Is that one of the problems? Unless there's something pretty major that I'm missing it seems like you would benefit from adopting districts.

[PVCpirate]

Originally Posted by Nuttyman54

One of the things I'm interested to see is how the transition will happen. My biggest concern is how they will deal with teams in areas where districts don't make sense, in the interim before they have a standardized model with cross-travel and a way to incorporate teams that don't fit into district regions. For example, PNW and NE are going to districts for 2014, and the Ontario region is likely to change to districts at some point as well. Depending on how the district borders are defined, this could leave teams in Montreal, BC, Alberta and other parts of Canada with at most one "local" event. As more regions move to districts, more pockets will appear where teams exist, but aren't populous enough for their own region, but don't fit well into neighboring regions.

I think the plan is to make sure those teams have a regional that is accessible to them as a local event. I say this because in New England, we have several teams that have almost always come to New England regionals from the Albany, NY area. From discussion in another thread, I heard that these teams were not invited to join the district, but that an Albany regional has been confirmed for 2014.

[Steven Donow]

Originally Posted by ZehP

What are some of the other factors at play? Based on the Where in the World is FIRST map, it looks like there are teams clustered around the Twin Cities and then scattered fairly evenly though the rest of the state. Is that one of the problems? Unless there's something pretty major that I'm missing it seems like you would benefit from adopting districts.

IIRC one of the major factors for no MN districts that I've seen mentioned on CD is the issue of volunteers/volunteer burnout.

[ehochstein]

Originally Posted by ZehP

What are some of the other factors at play? Based on the Where in the World is FIRST map, it looks like there are teams clustered around the Twin Cities and then scattered fairly evenly though the rest of the state. Is that one of the problems? Unless there's something pretty major that I'm missing it seems like you would benefit from adopting districts.

Volunteers, Key Volunteers and event planners. With 180 teams we would need 10 events minimum, that means pretty much 2 events every week plus a championship. We need more people running these events.

[Ernst]

Originally Posted by Wiifi

Volunteers, Key Volunteers and event planners. With 180 teams we would need 10 events minimum, that means pretty much 2 events every week plus a championship. We need more people running these events.

In Jim Zondag's FiM FAQ White Paper he said that in FiM teams are required to supply two volunteers to each tournament that they attend. Assuming district events have around 40 teams in attendance, that's an additional 80 volunteers per event. That still doesn't necessarily fill the Key Volunteer and event planner positions, but FiM, MAR, PNW and NEF must have run into that issue as well and overcome it.

I guess what I'm really trying to say is that, as a member of a Wisconsin team, I really want to see more cool semi-local action.

[PayneTrain]

People forget that the growth in Minnesota is a result of having a series of programs available for schools and organizations to start teams and keep them relatively sustainable, but the teams themselves across the entire state are rather inexperienced in comparison to the entirety of FRC, much less the two areas that currently support a district. The teams and the representatives that came together to support the districts in Michigan and NJ/PA/DE represent some of the "old guard" of FIRST as a whole.

Minnesota reached 180 teams 7 years after the foundation of their first team. Michigan reached 180 teams 16 years after the foundation of their first team.

It isn't as easy as this community thinks, myself occasionally included, to pick a series of boundaries with a certain number of teams within it and at a certain team density, and declare as armchair directors "You there! Build a district system!" The entire Minnesota program has existed exclusively in the modern 3v3 era. Imagine that! The state also exists almost entirely as an FRC island: there isn't the massive interstate cooperation and competition that exists on pockets of both coasts of the states or between the provinces of Canada.

Minnesota is a relatively dense location and is representative of the success teams can generate to support more teams, but a lot of teams in the state, in addition to the organization as a whole is like bread that hasn't fully risen yet. The ingredients are already in place and the environment is right, but it takes time and care.

I find it surprising the PNW area is jumping on so quickly because of the regions relative novelty as a fully developed area of competition. That will be an area to watch not only for its oft-unnoticed teams, but for their bold push to the new competitive structure.

[ehochstein]

Originally Posted by ZehP

In Jim Zondag's FiM FAQ White Paper he said that in FiM teams are required to supply two volunteers to each tournament that they attend. Assuming district events have around 40 teams in attendance, that's an additional 80 volunteers per event. That still doesn't necessarily fill the Key Volunteer and event planner positions, but FiM, MAR, PNW and NEF must have run into that issue as well and overcome it.

I guess what I'm really trying to say is that, as a member of a Wisconsin team, I really want to see more cool semi-local action.

I want to see increased local action as well, just we have a ways to go yet before we get there. I think by 2017 we will be in a better position to go to districts but that requires a lot of dedication from teams. Soon Minnesota will have a plethora of FIRST alumni graduating from college, I just hope we can find some way to keep them involved and keep them in MN.

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

People forget that the growth in Minnesota is a result of having a series of programs available for schools and organizations to start teams and keep them relatively sustainable, but the teams themselves across the entire state are rather inexperienced in comparison to the entirety of FRC, much less the two areas that currently support a district.

Minnesota is a relatively dense location and is representative of the success teams can generate to support more teams, but a lot of teams in the state, in addition to the organization as a whole is like bread that hasn't fully risen yet. The ingredients are already in place and the environment is right, but it takes time and care.

You have it exactly right - I first learned about FIRST in its second year of existence in Minnesota. I am going to be graduating from college next year in which case I plan to increase my role with FIRST in Minnesota. There are other people exactly like me throughout the state that want to do more for FIRST but haven't graduated yet or are simply too busy with school.

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by ZehP

In Jim Zondag's FiM FAQ White Paper he said that in FiM teams are required to supply two volunteers to each tournament that they attend. Assuming district events have around 40 teams in attendance, that's an additional 80 volunteers per event. That still doesn't necessarily fill the Key Volunteer and event planner positions, but FiM, MAR, PNW and NEF must have run into that issue as well and overcome it.

Having talked with volunteers, Key Volunteers, and Volunteer Coordinators from district areas, it isn't as easy as that. When a team is required to supply volunteers, you never know what you're going to get. Further, those required volunteers aren't really dedicated to the event - as a result, you end up with people signing up then dropping out, and a lot more work for the Volunteer Coordinator. Then you also get people who just don't show up to the event... how do you deal with that? What about small teams with a few kids and 1 mentor? How do you require them to supply volunteers?

The simple fact is that MN has 4 events, and just slightly more volunteers than we need to run 2 of them. Fortunately, almost everyone who lives in the Cities, and thus volunteers for their "home" regional in Minneapolis, also drives up to Duluth - you end up seeing all the same people at both double regionals (In all fairness, there are some volunteers from the Duluth area... but I doubt it's enough to put on even a single regional). That model simply won't work for Districts. We'll have 5 in the Cities, and everyone will volunteer there... all of the out-state events in places like Rochester, Fargo, Duluth, St. Cloud, and wherever else they end up would be horrible to try to run.

Add to that difficulties with Key Volunteers... we have 4 events in the state, but only 2 LRI's, for example. On top of that, we have a single Volunteer Coordinator that handles all 4 events. I wouldn't want to put the pressure of managing 10 events all on her shoulders!

These are all problems that will take time (years) to fix, as we need our local FRC teams and population to mature.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

Having talked with volunteers, Key Volunteers, and Volunteer Coordinators from district areas, it isn't as easy as that. When a team is required to supply volunteers, you never know what you're going to get. Further, those required volunteers aren't really dedicated to the event - as a result, you end up with people signing up then dropping out, and a lot more work for the Volunteer Coordinator. Then you also get people who just don't show up to the event... how do you deal with that? What about small teams with a few kids and 1 mentor? How do you require them to supply volunteers?

The simple fact is that MN has 4 events, and just slightly more volunteers than we need to run 2 of them. Fortunately, almost everyone who lives in the Cities, and thus volunteers for their "home" regional in Minneapolis, also drives up to Duluth - you end up seeing all the same people at both double regionals (In all fairness, there are some volunteers from the Duluth area... but I doubt it's enough to put on even a single regional). That model simply won't work for Districts. We'll have 5 in the Cities, and everyone will volunteer there... all of the out-state events in places like Rochester, Fargo, Duluth, St. Cloud, and wherever else they end up would be horrible to try to run.

Add to that difficulties with Key Volunteers... we have 4 events in the state, but only 2 LRI's, for example. On top of that, we have a single Volunteer Coordinator that handles all 4 events. I wouldn't want to put the pressure of managing 10 events all on her shoulders!

These are all problems that will take time (years) to fix, as we need our local FRC teams and population to mature.

Much of that describes us in the PNW, except that the OR event had it's own volunteer coordinator and the 3 in WA were handled by the same person. Yet we are pushing forward in hopes of making the district model work this year after working to that goal since last season when FIRST wanted us to go to the district model.

So my suggestion is to start scouting places for district events and double down on your volunteer recruitment and get key volunteer people trained this year by shadowing the existing people in those positions this season. FIRST has made it clear that the way forward is the district model better to get ahead of the curve than getting the word that all of the US will be using the district system and be left scrambling.