[FRC Blog] Frank Answers Fridays: June 7, 2013

[AllenGregoryIV]

Originally Posted by rachelholladay

I can't wait to be one of those old kids who can say "Yeah, I remember the days before districts." and then watch the kid's eyes widen when I explain the days of regionals..

Its fun, I love telling students about the time before bumpers and the large spinning lights to determine alliance color.

[Tetraman]

Originally Posted by AllenGregoryIV

Its fun, I love telling students about the time before bumpers and the large spinning lights to determine alliance color.

Those are the best, especially since we've kept one of ours in a dusty corner of our shop.

I do wish I was around to tell stories of odd-shaped fields, but I've only been around for the uniform rectangle field. So I get to listen to stories too.

[AJCaliciuri]

I myself am still a little confused at the district system having never attended one or really read a thorough explanation/description.

Ontario (where I'm from) has some of the most intense competition in all of FIRST with powerhouses like 188, 610, 1114, 1241, 1503, and 2056. Introduction of the district system in Ontario has been a hot topic since 2012.

Currently, there are three regionals in Ontario (GTR-East, Waterloo, GTR-West), with a fourth planning on being introduced for 2014. From the rumours, a district system is in the works for introduction in 2015, with three or four additional districts added on top of the existing four regionals that would have been converted.

From what I've heard, Western Canadian (Calgary, AB) and Festival de Robotique de Montreal (Montreal, QC) would remain regionals.

As I won't be a student member any longer in 2015, it doesn't really affect me. But, the prospect is interesting.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Wiifi

It would be extremely helpful if you were able to document your process for accomplishing this!

I would really like to the see the Minnesota FIRST website adopt more of a firstwa.org look. We do not have to worry about FLL, as that is run by High Tech Kids in MN and FTC is a little complicated at the moment but I really like the volunteer signups you guys have as well as the alumni portal you have.

Sorry I didn't get a chance to reply earlier. Yes things will be documented and shared, the goal is to create a blueprint of sorts on how to do the district model.

[Kims Robot]

Originally Posted by AJCaliciuri

I myself am still a little confused at the district system having never attended one or really read a thorough explanation/description.
..
Currently, there are three regionals in Ontario (GTR-East, Waterloo, GTR-West), with a fourth planning on being introduced for 2014. From the rumours, a district system is in the works for introduction in 2015, with three or four additional districts added on top of the existing four regionals that would have been converted.
...
From what I've heard, Western Canadian (Calgary, AB) and Festival de Robotique de Montreal (Montreal, QC) would remain regionals.

A general rule of thumb for districts is that you need enough district events to provide 2 events for every team. So using NE as an example, there are roughly 150 teams. That means we need 300 "spots". Every district event is supposed to have 30-40 teams, so we need between 7.5-10 events. Some teams will want to play 3 events, so NE made it an even 9 events.

If Ontario & Quebec were combined into a district, it looks like there are somewhere around 109 teams (lets say 110). For 110 teams, you need 220 spots, or 5.5-7.3 events. So my guess would be with your current teams, you would need 6 or 7 district events, plus a Championship.

In general the district events are intended to be "smaller" and a little more "low key" - think more of the well run offseason style. And another big intent is to save money, so for example, New England is trying to make sure that all of their sites are free or in-kind donation, so places like expensive convention centers that were used in the past will generally not be used at the district event level, and instead we will go to colleges or very large high schools (which still have some very nice venues, but just much less cost). So if some of your current venues are cheap or free, then the district may stick with them, if they are expensive, chances are they will move to another venue (perhaps in the same area, but more of a college/high school).

Also, most events will be Fri/Sat or Sat/Sun, reducing the amount of time that mentors & students have to take off from work/school. There are still occasional Thurs/Fri events, but it seems like the preference is Fri/Sat where possible.

On the team side of things, teams get at least 20-24 matches for the same registration fee they pay for one regional now, where they usually only get 9 or 10 matches.

Currently progression to the District Championships is based on a points model set by the region. If FIRST standardizes this as Frank mentions, it will allow much easier cross-district play (but the regions still have to have/allocate enough slots & events for "extra" teams).

[Jay O'Donnell]

Originally Posted by Kims Robot

A general rule of thumb for districts is that you need enough district events to provide 2 events for every team. So using NE as an example, there are roughly 150 teams. That means we need 300 "spots". Every district event is supposed to have 30-40 teams, so we need between 7.5-10 events. Some teams will want to play 3 events, so NE made it an even 9 events.

Any idea where these nine events would be held? Right now the only ones I can think of are the cities where we had regionals already. (Manchester, Boston, Worcester, Hartford, Lewiston)

[TD78]

Originally Posted by Jay Money 1058

Any idea where these nine events would be held? Right now the only ones I can think of are the cities where we had regionals already. (Manchester, Boston, Worcester, Hartford, Lewiston)

There will be an event in Rhode Island, somewhere not too far off of Route 95.

[BrendanB]

Originally Posted by Jay Money 1058

Any idea where these nine events would be held? Right now the only ones I can think of are the cities where we had regionals already. (Manchester, Boston, Worcester, Hartford, Lewiston)

I'm sure Maine will keep one with at least one in NH with another in NH/Northern Mass. Based on what I have heard districts need to be located so it is viable to get teams to their two events. Teams in Northern NH, Western NH, Vermont, and Maine will have a lot of travel to do unless careful consideration is taken for where districts are placed. I could get quite expensive if your team has to travel 2-4 hours for both district events and the district championship and potentially move on to the Championship.

[Pault]

Originally Posted by BrendanB

I'm sure Maine will keep one with at least one in NH with another in NH/Northern Mass. Based on what I have heard districts need to be located so it is viable to get teams to their two events. Teams in Northern NH, Western NH, Vermont, and Maine will have a lot of travel to do unless careful consideration is taken for where districts are placed. I could get quite expensive if your team has to travel 2-4 hours for both district events and the district championship and potentially move on to the Championship.

Do you have any idea of where the committee wants the New England Championship to be held? Manchester seems like it has a central location and its also the home of FIRST, but Boston is considered to be the major city of New England and probably has a lower average travel distance for all New England teams (I might be a little biased towards Boston).

[plnyyanks]

Originally Posted by Pault

Do you have any idea of where the committee wants the New England Championship to be held? Manchester seems like it has a central location and its also the home of FIRST, but Boston is considered to be the major city of New England and probably has a lower average travel distance for all New England teams (I might be a little biased towards Boston).

I believe they had narrowed it down to Hartford, Boston, and WPI. I don't yet know if a final decision has been made yet.

[PVCpirate]

Originally Posted by Jay Money 1058

Any idea where these nine events would be held? Right now the only ones I can think of are the cities where we had regionals already. (Manchester, Boston, Worcester, Hartford, Lewiston)

I've thought about this for a while. With new info from this thread, this is what I would think with 9 events: Portland area, Manchester, Nashua, WPI, 2 Boston area, Hartford area, south of Hartford(New Britain? Meriden?) Providence area.

[BrendanB]

Originally Posted by plnyyanks

I believe they had narrowed it down to Hartford, Boston, and WPI. I don't yet know if a final decision has been made yet.

Last I heard a few weeks ago nothing was even close with the district championship location because most venues can't hold 45 teams. I don't see how WPI would be large enough to host a district event as well as host a district and Battlecry.

[plnyyanks]

Originally Posted by BrendanB

Last I heard a few weeks ago nothing was even close with the district championship location because most venues can't hold 45 teams. I don't see how WPI would be large enough to host a district event as well as host a district and Battlecry.

At Beantown Blitz, Kim was going around surveying people about the district championship, and it included ranking those three locations, as well ranking a bunch of other aspects of the event (number of matches, number of teams, only best teams, as many teams as possible, etc).

I think that with WPI's new athletic center they can hold many more teams (BattleCry this year had 54 teams), although I have no idea how scheduling 2-3 events would happen. This year, Boston had 51 teams, and CT had 56, so all three of those would appear to be able to house that size of an event.

[BrendanB]

Originally Posted by plnyyanks

At Beantown Blitz, Kim was going around surveying people about the district championship, and it included ranking those three locations, as well ranking a bunch of other aspects of the event (number of matches, number of teams, only best teams, as many teams as possible, etc).

I think that with WPI's new athletic center they can hold many more teams (BattleCry this year had 54 teams), although I have no idea how scheduling 2-3 events would happen. This year, Boston had 51 teams, and CT had 56, so all three of those would appear to be able to house that size of an event.

We shall find out. It will be sad to see the Boston Regional go. Its probably one of the best regionals in the country. The Boston Regional Planning Committee has done a fantastic job over the years.

[Pault]

The WPI venue would probably have enough room, even if they had to use that recreational area in between the pits and stands. I was only at the regional, not BC, so I can't say how easy it would be to squeeze teams in without being forced to use that area. But I just don't think it has the right kind of atmosphere for a championship. The stands are very intimate, which would make for an awesome district, but I just think that a championship needs to be more grand like it is at the Boston Regional. Maybe it's only in my head, but I just don't see the WPI venue putting out the type of spectacular event that an outsider would expect from the New England Robotics Championships. Boston may avoid that problem, but then I think the problem of not enough room for pits may be a factor. Also, the Boston venue would attract a lot more attention from the general public. I can't say anything about Hartford.

Originally Posted by BrendanB

We shall find out. It will be sad to see the Boston Regional go. Its probably one of the best regionals in the country. The Boston Regional Planning Committee has done a fantastic job over the years.

I agree. The planning committee was great, and so were the judges (I am biased again, they wrote my team an entire song ). I loved the venue, and it managed to attract so many distant teams. In the last 2 years we have had teams from Pennsylvania, Florida, California, Canada, Mexico, Turkey, Brazil and almost Alaska (I am very disappointed that they didn't manage to make it here).