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  #16   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-08-2013, 13:59
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Re: Proper way to connect a solenoid

Do you guys know of a way to use a non spike relay on the bot? We only have two working ones and one is on the compressor, we want to have 4 cannons and our team is short on cash so we really don't want to spend the $35 for each new spike
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Unread 07-08-2013, 14:02
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Re: Proper way to connect a solenoid

Quote:
Originally Posted by bardd View Post
Working with the 24V isn't different than 12V, and like Scott said, if it worked with the battery it'll work on the robot. The thing is since you're not using the solenoid's specifications it might fail or work poorly. Also, it's bad practice to not supply the component's specifications, that's why I suggested getting another.

Other than the tips in my original post, there's not much I can say, based on your description. Do you think you could post a picture of the system you built?
I won't be able to post a picture today because I don't have access to the robot right now. It's at another members house,I'll ask him to post one later today
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Unread 07-08-2013, 14:18
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Re: Proper way to connect a solenoid

In terms of code, I am using Java commandbase. I have "public static Relay cannon = new Relay(4);" in RobotMap. I also have a command setup to fire. In the initialize i'm doing "RobotMap.cannon.set(Relay.Value.kOn);" where cannon is the name of the Relay and RobotMap is the place where it is defined. I can verify that the command is running because I have a debug statement which is printing when I push the button to run it.
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Unread 07-08-2013, 14:37
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Re: Proper way to connect a solenoid

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkoripalli View Post
In terms of code, I am using Java commandbase. I have "public static Relay cannon = new Relay(4);" in RobotMap. I also have a command setup to fire. In the initialize i'm doing "RobotMap.cannon.set(Relay.Value.kOn);" where cannon is the name of the Relay and RobotMap is the place where it is defined. I can verify that the command is running because I have a debug statement which is printing when I push the button to run it.
Using kOn is turning both sides of the relay on, which won't cause the solenoid to fire. You want to use kForward which sets the + side to 12v and the - side to ground.

Alternately, you can set the direction to forward in the constructor and then use kOn.
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Unread 07-08-2013, 14:43
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Re: Proper way to connect a solenoid

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Originally Posted by tr6scott View Post
From the link I posted, they were talking that they were reliably firing the solenoids with 9vdc batteries, so I would wire it with a spike to the 12v battery. Let it run, and monitor how warm it gets, just to watch for early failure.

Not sure how much to spend on an analog pressure sensor, but we use these in industry. http://www.ifm.com/products/us/ds/PN2024.htm with good success.
I'm reading that spikes can only switch 12v, which is why I believe that it didn't work for us.

You mentioned earlier, and I'm reading here http://team358.org/files/pneumatic/ that 24v solenoids can be run through the cRIO power. Are you familiar with how this is done?
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Unread 07-08-2013, 14:46
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Re: Proper way to connect a solenoid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Ross View Post
Using kOn is turning both sides of the relay on, which won't cause the solenoid to fire. You want to use kForward which sets the + side to 12v and the - side to ground.

Alternately, you can set the direction to forward in the constructor and then use kOn.
Sorry, I forgot to mention that after kForward didn't work I switched it to kOn. Thank you though, I will change it back now
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Unread 07-08-2013, 15:04
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Re: Proper way to connect a solenoid

oOPS Double post.
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Last edited by tr6scott : 07-08-2013 at 15:08. Reason: oops
  #23   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-08-2013, 15:07
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Re: Proper way to connect a solenoid

[quote=tr6scott;1286265]
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkoripalli View Post
I'm reading that spikes can only switch 12v, which is why I believe that it didn't work for us.
But you said the valve worked by direct connecting to the battery, so it should work with the spike connected to 12v power.

I understand you don't want to use the spikes due to the cost, and if you need 4 of them. Why I suggested them, is they are very robust, and fused, which is nice when you are putting stuff together outside of specifications.

This diagram, http://team358.org/files/programming...ionDiagram.pdf shows two solenoid cards, one is powered by 24vdc and one is powered by 12vdc.

As you already stated that 12vdc worked, I would suggest that you wire to 12v to test, this is because we are working outside of specs, and if something goes, you may blow the 24vdc power supply in the power distribution board, and the cost money too.

Here is the manual to the solenoid breakout, http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default...20Breakout.pdf You will need a 2 pin pwm cabel, wired to the solenoid + to + ground to ground. When you turn on the output in the program the solenoid will fire with the voltage that you apply to power input terminals.
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  #24   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-08-2013, 15:31
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Re: Proper way to connect a solenoid

The 24 volt AC sprinkler valves that we used would not work on 12 VDC with pressure. They need about 18 volts to fire. You may have a similar issue.

You should connect them to the pneumatic breakout with that module being powered with 24 VDC as shown in the diagram Scott linked to in the thread above this.

We have done this for several years and it works fine.

Attached is an updated version of the same drawing. It shows how to get power for a 24 volt solenoid and this is even legal. Your circuit is fully protected.

I would suggest installing diodes across the coil to absorb the back EMF from the coil. Here is a link that explains. You can leave out the resistor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flyback_diode

You should see the green lights on the module change when you trigger the valve. Remember, you need a short pulse, about 0.5 second is good, so your code will need to make that pulse with a small state machine or you could just connect it to a button on the joystick and let the operator create the short pulse.

Have fun!

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Attached Files
File Type: pdf 2011 Robot_data_power_ Power Dist 2011 (24V) (1).pdf (270.4 KB, 9 views)
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Unread 09-08-2013, 16:01
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Re: Proper way to connect a solenoid

One thing that you can do to get the 24 V that you need is share the power with the cRio. This is something that teams have done in the past I believe. The port off the PD board that you wire to power the cRio, there are 4 wire holes there, you can draw and extra wire from it to power the solenoid breakout panel.

There are probably some concerns with this. I would not recommend using this method and mixing 12V and 24V solenoids. Some people would not use this method at all.
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