Go to Post Ladies and Gentlemen I believe this is the first time a Fantasy FIRST draft has been completed before it's allotted start time! - Koko Ed [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Electrical
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-08-2013, 17:39
yash101 yash101 is offline
Curiosity | I have too much of it!
AKA: null
no team
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: devnull
Posts: 1,191
yash101 is an unknown quantity at this point
Driver station power

I am designing an advanced driver station for our team, and I was wondering if a car battery would be allowed as a power source. I would use a shunt connected to the mcu to monitor the battery conditions and see if it would be safe. Are car batteries allowed at the competition if they are not on the robot? If anyone is interested in the project, the homepage is at: http://devstuff.no-ip.biz:890
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-08-2013, 17:48
techhelpbb's Avatar
techhelpbb techhelpbb is offline
Registered User
FRC #0011 (MORT - Team 11)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Rookie Year: 1997
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,624
techhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Driver station power

From previous Q&A:
http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread...-Extra-Battery
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-08-2013, 17:49
Dragonking's Avatar
Dragonking Dragonking is offline
Registered User
AKA: Aaron Cannon
FRC #0862 (Lightning Robotics)
Team Role: Mechanical
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Canton Mi
Posts: 172
Dragonking is just really niceDragonking is just really niceDragonking is just really niceDragonking is just really niceDragonking is just really nice
Re: Driver station power

I believe there are available power strips or individual sockets at each of the driver stations on all fields. I'm pretty sure they are available at all venues, if you need power.
__________________
2013-2014 Mechanical Subgroup, Scouting Captain
2015 Design Subgroup, Strategy Lead/Scouting Captain




  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-08-2013, 17:53
yash101 yash101 is offline
Curiosity | I have too much of it!
AKA: null
no team
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: devnull
Posts: 1,191
yash101 is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Driver station power

I was wanting the cart to be portable, and I wanted two BAG motors aboard to help reduce the weight of many batteries; otherwise, the 15 amp outlet would be the best solution
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-08-2013, 17:55
BobbyVanNess's Avatar
BobbyVanNess BobbyVanNess is offline
Registered User
AKA: Bobby Van Ness
FRC #0020 (The Rocketeers)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Clifton Park
Posts: 116
BobbyVanNess is a glorious beacon of lightBobbyVanNess is a glorious beacon of lightBobbyVanNess is a glorious beacon of lightBobbyVanNess is a glorious beacon of lightBobbyVanNess is a glorious beacon of lightBobbyVanNess is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Driver station power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonking View Post
I believe there are available power strips or individual sockets at each of the driver stations on all fields. I'm pretty sure they are available at all venues, if you need power.
I believe there are connectors for the KOP driver station computers, however teams not running that computer can not benefit from them.

We wound up connecting a 12v robot battery to a 120v inverter, and powered the laptop charger directly. This saved us on a number of occasions, going into matches only to find that the driver station battery was about to die as we were setting up.
__________________
2016 TVR Finalists, FLR Champions, Carver Sub-Division
2015 TVR Finalists, Carson Sub-Division Champions, IRI
2014 TVR Champions, FLR Champions, Archimedes Division, IRI
2013 WPI Regional Finalist, Connecticut Regional Champion, Archimedes Division, IRI
2013 Championship and IRI Talent Show winner

2013 - 2014 Driver: 82-43
Lead Strategy Mentor: 32-15
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-08-2013, 18:01
yash101 yash101 is offline
Curiosity | I have too much of it!
AKA: null
no team
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: devnull
Posts: 1,191
yash101 is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Driver station power

I am talking about a 2000 watt inverter connected to a car battery, breakered and fused. I am willing to place every safety feature possible, like current watch and temp watch. In my current schematic, I am having 250 amp MOSFETs powering everything so if too high of a current is detected, an automatic shutdown of that component for a set amount of time. It will also have a display and a usb-serial plug to the driver station and control EVERYTHING, even the power TO the motor drivers (victors)

EDIT: I am also thinking of placing the battery inside an ABS holder, because of it's resistance to acid spills. We would smell a spill before it becomes too late.

Last edited by yash101 : 08-08-2013 at 18:03. Reason: Adding something at bottom, placed after EDIT:
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-08-2013, 18:23
Joe Ross's Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero
Joe Ross Joe Ross is offline
Registered User
FRC #0330 (Beachbots)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1997
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,590
Joe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Driver station power

Who is going to carry this monster?
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 08-08-2013, 18:56
Gregor's Avatar
Gregor Gregor is offline
#StickToTheStratisQuo
AKA: Gregor Browning
no team
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,447
Gregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Driver station power

A robot battery and one of these should suffice.
__________________
What are nationals? Sounds like a fun American party, can we Canadians come?
“For me, insanity is super sanity. The normal is psychotic. Normal means lack of imagination, lack of creativity.” -Jean Dubuffet
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." -Albert Einstein
FLL 2011-2015 Glen Ames Robotics-Student, Mentor
FRC 2012-2013 Team 907-Scouting Lead, Strategy Lead, Human Player, Driver
FRC 2014-2015 Team 1310-Mechanical, Electrical, Drive Captain
FRC 2011-xxxx Volunteer
How I came to be a FIRSTer
<Since 2011
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-08-2013, 00:05
yash101 yash101 is offline
Curiosity | I have too much of it!
AKA: null
no team
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: devnull
Posts: 1,191
yash101 is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Driver station power

This is kind of overkill, but this is what I was looking at. However, the price tag isn't the prettiest. However, we could start out with a small inverter to just start off with and if we decide to do something like charging robot batteries on the fly, maybe upgrading to something similar to this would be feasible. However, the inverter that Gregor linked to was the first one that I looked at. BTW, has anyone visited the site that I posted and think something is impractical?
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-08-2013, 06:03
techhelpbb's Avatar
techhelpbb techhelpbb is offline
Registered User
FRC #0011 (MORT - Team 11)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Rookie Year: 1997
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,624
techhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Driver station power

Quote:
Originally Posted by team1165wins View Post
BTW, has anyone visited the site that I posted and think something is impractical?
Use solid state relays not MOSFETs.
Still not really sure why you have such high current requirements.

Also...

Propeller input + voltage divider = 5V tolerant input
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-08-2013, 07:21
Unsung FIRST Hero
Al Skierkiewicz Al Skierkiewicz is offline
Broadcast Eng/Chief Robot Inspector
AKA: Big Al WFFA 2005
FRC #0111 (WildStang)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Wheeling, IL
Posts: 10,798
Al Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Driver station power

Quote:
Originally Posted by techhelpbb View Post
This response was for a time when power was not supplied in the driver's station and this became the FRC recommendation for that year.

We are very concerned about safety in all areas of the competition and moving a heavy, liquid acid battery and high voltage source pushes the envelope on that precept. Additionally, there is very little floor space in the driver's station to place your equipment. There is no substitute to having the laptop battery charged before you come to the field. And while nice, most teams find there is no substitute for charging batteries in the pit prior to coming to the field.

More likely to be invoked is this...
4.1.11.4
R93
The OPERATOR CONSOLE must not exceed 60 in. long by 12 in. deep (excluding any items that are held or worn bythe DRIVERS during the match). There is a 54 in. long by 2 in. wide strip of hook-and-loop tape (“loop” side) along the center of the PLAYER STATION support shelf that may be used to secure the OPERATOR CONSOLE to the shelf. See Section2.2.9 for details.
__________________
Good Luck All. Learn something new, everyday!
Al
WB9UVJ
www.wildstang.org
________________________
Storming the Tower since 1996.
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-08-2013, 07:45
techhelpbb's Avatar
techhelpbb techhelpbb is offline
Registered User
FRC #0011 (MORT - Team 11)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Rookie Year: 1997
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,624
techhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond reputetechhelpbb has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Driver station power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz View Post
This response was for a time when power was not supplied in the driver's station and this became the FRC recommendation for that year.
In 2011 Team 11 was given an approval to use batteries in flashlights at the driver's station

However I agree this seems extreme and of course rules change. Those flashlights would not exceed the driver's station dimensions but we scraped it early on. It was for a camera tracking system we did not need.

Considering that a laptop charger is usually < 150W and < 30V.
I do not understand why anyone would need the sorts of current listed at the link.
If you must charge a laptop from a battery why not get a universal laptop car charger and put an Anderson Power connector on the end for a FIRST approved robot battery?
At least then you should have plenty of opportunities to charge that robot battery.
Plus handling the robot batteries is typical for this competition.
Plus a laptop charger meant to work in the car will not put out wall socket voltages.
So there's much less risk of some unusual accident.
Plus 150W max is no worse that 2 CIMs dragging on that battery.
Finally the custom electronics power supply on the robot would work at the driver's station (with less issues).

Course again it is entirely at FIRST's discretion if they allow this in future years.

I will also add that in past years while in various volunteer positions I've had the crazed experience of trying to help a team find a replacement laptop battery at a competition (laptop batteries are not cheap and the software just takes hours to install). Lucky for those that got one I have several friends with computer stores and piles of questionable laptops they can part for a used spare. Usually my friends have been good enough to just give them the battery which is generous considering it's a zero notice demand and sometimes they've even delivered it (hey that was not 30 minutes or less ).

I myself have a universal car charger with an Anderson power connector and a few tails just in case something like this happens. I come prepared (I even lately bring a spare dual core laptop suitable as a driver's station with most of the software and updates installed) and the mess stops with me. However I would never offer this up as a solution without confirming with the field crew they understand what is going on (even if the rules might allow it in any given year).

Last edited by techhelpbb : 09-08-2013 at 10:21.
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-08-2013, 10:23
FrankJ's Avatar
FrankJ FrankJ is offline
Robot Mentor
FRC #2974 (WALT)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Marietta GA
Posts: 1,944
FrankJ has a reputation beyond reputeFrankJ has a reputation beyond reputeFrankJ has a reputation beyond reputeFrankJ has a reputation beyond reputeFrankJ has a reputation beyond reputeFrankJ has a reputation beyond reputeFrankJ has a reputation beyond reputeFrankJ has a reputation beyond reputeFrankJ has a reputation beyond reputeFrankJ has a reputation beyond reputeFrankJ has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Driver station power

We have always plugged our laptop in the pits between matches. We have had close calls. Especially in the finals when you do not go back to the pits between matches. We are looking at putting power on our cart for this reason.

The FRC legal battery with a small inverter will keep your lap top charged. Since it is the same battery as the robot, you get a spare robot battery or you can use an older robot battery that doesn't have the umph for competition. A lot less likely to raise a flag with the safety people since there are 100s in the building already.
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-08-2013, 13:12
daniel_dsouza daniel_dsouza is offline
does what needs to be done.
FRC #2449 (Out of Orbit Robotics)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: May 2011
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 231
daniel_dsouza has a spectacular aura aboutdaniel_dsouza has a spectacular aura about
Re: Driver station power

you could also use a computer that has the same power requirements as the classmate.

Our Lenovo x61 laptop-tablet computer has a power adapter that uses the same connection just before the power brick.
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-08-2013, 13:36
Mark McLeod's Avatar
Mark McLeod Mark McLeod is offline
Just Itinerant
AKA: Hey dad...Father...MARK
FRC #0358 (Robotic Eagles)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Hauppauge, Long Island, NY
Posts: 8,862
Mark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Driver station power

Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel_dsouza View Post
you could also use a computer that has the same power requirements as the classmate.

Our Lenovo x61 laptop-tablet computer has a power adapter that uses the same connection just before the power brick.
Please don't plan on unplugging parts of the field at your whim.
The field provides a barrel connector for a Classmate. It doesn't provide any other plugs.
__________________
"Rationality is our distinguishing characteristic - it's what sets us apart from the beasts." - Aristotle
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 16:16.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi