Go to Post the best way to make things most unfair is to have different rules for different people. - Jack Jones [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > FIRST > General Forum
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 3 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 13-08-2013, 15:21
BigJ BigJ is online now
Registered User
AKA: Josh P.
FRC #1675 (Ultimate Protection Squad)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 947
BigJ has a reputation beyond reputeBigJ has a reputation beyond reputeBigJ has a reputation beyond reputeBigJ has a reputation beyond reputeBigJ has a reputation beyond reputeBigJ has a reputation beyond reputeBigJ has a reputation beyond reputeBigJ has a reputation beyond reputeBigJ has a reputation beyond reputeBigJ has a reputation beyond reputeBigJ has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FRC "Survival Scenario" Exercise

  1. Initial registration fee (1 regional OR 2 districts)
  2. Registration Fee for additional regional OR district championship
  3. Travel expenses (hotel, transportation, food) for two competition events
  4. A mentor of your choice with mechanical engineering expertise
  5. A mentor of your choice with programming expertise
  6. A mentor of your choice with FRC strategic design expertise
  7. A mentor of your choice with expertise in all non-engineering matters
  8. An active teacher and supportive school of your choice (1)
  9. $500 Visa Debit Card
  10. Basic hand tools + Measurement tools + Electrical tools (nothing powered)
  11. Basic power tools (Cordless drill + bit set, Dremel, etc.)
  12. Drill press & bit set + Band saw
  13. $500 worth of raw material (aluminum, steel, polycarb)
  14. $500 voucher for AndyMark
  15. $500 voucher for McMaster-Carr
  16. Sheet metal bending capabilities
  17. $500 voucher for Lowe’s or Home Depot
  18. Welding capabilities
  19. Two Laptops with OS + Internet access
  20. $500 voucher for VEX/VEX Pro
  21. Team Meeting Area (2)
  22. Lathe & tooling
  23. Mill & tooling
  24. Full Size Practice Area (Space, Carpet, Driver Stations - No Game Elements)
  25. Six additional batteries and chargers
  26. A mentor of your choice with CAD/Inventor expertise
  27. 3 Axis CNC & tooling
  28. Belt sander + grinder + arbor press
  29. Laser OR water jet cutter
  30. A mentor of your choice with electrical engineering expertise
  31. Pit Set Up of your choice + Robot Cart
  32. Team Uniforms (sufficient quantity for all team members)
  33. Team Button Give Aways (sufficient quantity for all events)
  34. Unique Team Give Away (sufficient quantity for all events)
Top 11 bolded since they are guaranteed.

Assumptions and reasoning:
  • The goal is to qualify for championship. I will disregard the Chairman's/EI path to qualification as that would vary heavily on the team and what the students had done in the past.
  • Events: I picked registration and travel to 2 events. At the current state of FRC, districts are tough competition. I will go to 2 regionals that are either new, underpopulated, or in a "weaker" region robot-wise. Let's not get into arguments deciding which regionals these would be.
  • Mentors: I left the "electrical expertise" and "CAD expertise" down the list for later. I figured a group of engineers and former FIRST students could handle the task of wiring a functional robot. I also left the CAD expertise for farther down the list, for using 3-axis CNC and up tools. A NEM to handle all our hotels and transportation booking and helping with other things also saves a lot of the stress from the other mentors.
  • Tools and fabrication: With an experienced FRC mentor I figure the team will be able to build within its means, upgrading its level of construction as it gains more fabrication methods.
  • Batteries: I'm sure some nice team would help us out if we couldn't afford extras
  • Possibly against the spirit of the challenge, Money-wise I also figured that the mentors have jobs, engineering or otherwise, and wouldn't mind chipping in some cash. I also assumed that the programming mentor would have some sort of personal laptop or other computer to use if the number of items wasn't met for the 2 laptops.
  • Spirit/Image items: While important, and one of my favorite parts of first, these dropped to the bottom of a list purely trying to qualify for Championship.
  • I set my baseline for comparison at the $500 dollar debit card. A number of things lower on the list are because I felt that the essential parts of it were worth much less. Ex. "Pit and Robot Cart", I felt only the robot cart was essential, and depending on the robot, transportation could be done with something pretty inexpensive.

EDIT: Just realized the max is 30 items! Byebye spirit items!

Last edited by BigJ : 13-08-2013 at 15:37.
Reply With Quote
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 13-08-2013, 15:45
Kevin Leonard Kevin Leonard is offline
Professional Stat Padder
FRC #5254 (HYPE), FRC #20 (The Rocketeers)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 1,253
Kevin Leonard has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Leonard has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Leonard has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Leonard has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Leonard has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Leonard has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Leonard has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Leonard has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Leonard has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Leonard has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Leonard has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FRC "Survival Scenario" Exercise

NOTE: This is my personal list, and most definitely does not represent all or even most of the members of Team 20.

1) Initial registration fee (1 regional OR 2 districts)
2) Registration Fee for additional regional OR district championship
3) A mentor of your choice with electrical engineering expertise
4) A mentor of your choice with programming expertise
5) Two Laptops with OS + Internet access
6) A mentor of your choice with expertise in all non-engineering matters
7) A mentor of your choice with mechanical engineering expertise
8) Travel expenses (hotel, transportation, food) for two competition events
9) $500 Visa Debit Card
10) Basic hand tools + Measurement tools + Electrical tools (nothing powered)
11) Basic power tools (Cordless drill + bit set, Dremel, etc.)

12) $500 voucher for AndyMark
13) An active teacher and supportive school of your choice (1)
14) Team Uniforms (sufficient quantity for all team members)
15) A mentor of your choice with FRC strategic design expertise
16) Full Size Practice Area (Space, Carpet, Driver Stations - No Game Elements)
17) $500 worth of raw material (aluminum, steel, polycarb)
18) Drill press & bit set + Band saw
19) Belt sander + grinder + arbor press
20) A mentor of your choice with CAD/Inventor expertise
21) $500 voucher for VEX/VEX Pro
22) Team Meeting Area (2)
23) Lathe & tooling
24) Mill & tooling
25) Six additional batteries and chargers
26) Team Button Give Aways (sufficient quantity for all events)
27) $500 voucher for McMaster-Carr
28) Pit Set Up of your choice + Robot Cart
29) Laser OR water jet cutter
30) Sheet metal bending capabilities
31) 3 Axis CNC & tooling
32) $500 voucher for Lowe’s or Home Depot
33) Unique Team Give Away (sufficient quantity for all events)
34) Welding capabilities

My basic goal was to be a competitive, basic level FRC team. The kind that could get into eliminations at any FRC regional or district event. I also based the list off of myself (i.e. Programming and Electrical mentors are high up on the list because those are my blind spots.)
I think that any team can build a competitive robot with some intelligence and my top 11 items. (You can substitute those mentors with mentors that suit your blind spots.) I have a non-engineering mentor in there not as much for award submissions, spirit, imagery, etc., but more for the financial, non-engineering mentorship aspects to be taken care of. After that it becomes things I'd like to have in order of preference.

The most interesting part was discovering what I found to be the least important. The bottom four are guaranteed to not be in my list of items this team could have.
31) 3 Axis CNC & tooling- Do you really need CNC to succeed?
32) $500 voucher for Lowe’s or Home Depot- I already have raw materials and vouchers for andymark/vexpro/McMaster, do I need Home Depot items?
33) Unique Team Give Away (sufficient quantity for all events)- I already have team buttons, these are unnecessary.
34) Welding capabilities- This was the most interesting part to me, because my team welds their robots, but if I have the ability to work with sheet metal, I don't need this. And even without either, I can have a pretty good drivetrain with just the KOP drivetrain.

I think I might bring this to our team's attention and see what comes of it.
__________________
All of my posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of my associated teams.
College Student Mentor on Team 5254, HYPE - Helping Youth Pursue Excellence
(2015-Present)
Alumni of Team 20, The Rocketeers (2011-2014)
I'm attempting a robotics blog. Check it out at RocketHypeRobotics.wordpress.com Updated 10/26/16
Reply With Quote
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 13-08-2013, 16:00
AdamHeard's Avatar
AdamHeard AdamHeard is offline
Lead Mentor
FRC #0973 (Greybots)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Atascadero
Posts: 5,510
AdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to AdamHeard
Re: FRC "Survival Scenario" Exercise

Considering the laser or waterjet costs more than the entire rest of the list (even the combined salaries of the engineers listed), I would put that #1.
Reply With Quote
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 13-08-2013, 16:04
nicholsjj's Avatar
nicholsjj nicholsjj is offline
Registered User
AKA: John Nichols
no team (Devil Bots)
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Murpyhsboro, IL.
Posts: 261
nicholsjj has a brilliant futurenicholsjj has a brilliant futurenicholsjj has a brilliant futurenicholsjj has a brilliant futurenicholsjj has a brilliant futurenicholsjj has a brilliant futurenicholsjj has a brilliant futurenicholsjj has a brilliant futurenicholsjj has a brilliant futurenicholsjj has a brilliant futurenicholsjj has a brilliant future
Re: FRC "Survival Scenario" Exercise

Where's the choice for dedicated students? That would be top on my list. Then every mentor listed. Add in the registration fees and the rest of the stuff will get done. Dedicated students getting taught by passionate mentors is my personal definition of a successful team.
__________________
2011-FRC Team 3862, Team Captain
2012-FRC Team 3862, Strategy Mentor
2013-FRC Team 3885, Programming Mentor, Razorback Regional, Curie Inspector
2014- FRC Team 3885, Programming Mentor, Arkansas Regional, Newton inspector
2015-??? Teacher Murphysboro High School


“They call it coaching but it is teaching. You do not just tell them…you show them the reasons.”- V. Lombardi

Reply With Quote
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 13-08-2013, 16:13
Pault's Avatar
Pault Pault is offline
Registered User
FRC #0246 (Overclocked)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Boston
Posts: 618
Pault has a reputation beyond reputePault has a reputation beyond reputePault has a reputation beyond reputePault has a reputation beyond reputePault has a reputation beyond reputePault has a reputation beyond reputePault has a reputation beyond reputePault has a reputation beyond reputePault has a reputation beyond reputePault has a reputation beyond reputePault has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FRC "Survival Scenario" Exercise

I think the scenario would be a little clearer if you were to say that the team has tried every other company that could potentially sponsor them, and this is the only sponsor to say yes. If there is a possibility that other sponsors come in and give the team some more stuff, then people will be more inclined to pick stuff that is harder to get but not necessarily as important
Reply With Quote
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 13-08-2013, 16:39
AllenGregoryIV's Avatar
AllenGregoryIV AllenGregoryIV is offline
Engineering Coach
AKA: Allen "JAG" Gregory
FRC #3847 (Spectrum)
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,557
AllenGregoryIV has a reputation beyond reputeAllenGregoryIV has a reputation beyond reputeAllenGregoryIV has a reputation beyond reputeAllenGregoryIV has a reputation beyond reputeAllenGregoryIV has a reputation beyond reputeAllenGregoryIV has a reputation beyond reputeAllenGregoryIV has a reputation beyond reputeAllenGregoryIV has a reputation beyond reputeAllenGregoryIV has a reputation beyond reputeAllenGregoryIV has a reputation beyond reputeAllenGregoryIV has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to AllenGregoryIV
Re: FRC "Survival Scenario" Exercise

1 Initial registration fee (1 regional OR 2 districts)
2 Registration Fee for additional regional OR district championship
3 A mentor of your choice with CAD/Inventor expertise
4 Travel expenses (hotel, transportation, food) for two competition events
5 $500 Visa Debit Card
6 Lathe & tooling
7 Laser OR water jet cutter
8 Sheet metal bending capabilities
9 Full Size Practice Area (Space, Carpet, Driver Stations - No Game Elements)
10 $500 voucher for McMaster-Carr
11 $500 voucher for VEX/VEX Pro

12 $500 worth of raw material (aluminum, steel, polycarb)
13 $500 voucher for AndyMark
14 $500 voucher for Lowe’s or Home Depot
15 Team Meeting Area (2)
16 Mill & tooling
17 A mentor of your choice with FRC strategic design expertise
18 A mentor of your choice with programming expertise
19 A mentor of your choice with mechanical engineering expertise
20 A mentor of your choice with expertise in all non-engineering matters
21 A mentor of your choice with electrical engineering expertise
22 3 Axis CNC & tooling
23 Team Uniforms (sufficient quantity for all team members)
24 Pit Set Up of your choice + Robot Cart
25 Two Laptops with OS + Internet access
26 Six additional batteries and chargers
27 An active teacher and supportive school of your choice (1)
28 Basic hand tools + Measurement tools + Electrical tools (nothing powered)
29 Drill press & bit set + Band saw
30 Belt sander + grinder + arbor press
31 Basic power tools (Cordless drill + bit set, Dremel, etc.)
32 Welding capabilities
33 Team Button Give Aways (sufficient quantity for all events)
34 Unique Team Give Away (sufficient quantity for all events)

This was picked on the basis of building the best robot and assumes you have an awesome group of students. It's possible to run a successful team with only one mentor, hard but possible. Since most of the robot is going to be laser cut sheet metal, CAD experience is the most important. Students can pick up the programming, electrical, and other stuff pretty well from all the resources that exist and getting help from other teams.

You can buy, craigslist, dumpster dive, etc. for a lot of the small tools and items that you need. Once you have a lathe, laser cutter, and CNC break there isn't much you can't make.

The full practice area would be extremely beneficial to making a competitive robot. Several really great teams meet in a garage and figure out a way to get it done, but having a meeting space would be preferred.

A robot cart can just be a $10 furniture dolly and pit shelves while nice are not needed. I also feel like buttons in FRC are dying down a bit, they aren't nearly as "required" as I remember them being. Handwritten notes of encouragement would be better giveaways than pretty much anything you could buy anyway, so why waste the spot.

I'm hoping I role at least a 5. If we get a 1 we would probably move to a plywood laser cut robot like 1899.
__________________

Team 647 | Cyber Wolf Corps | Alumni | 2003-2006 | Shoemaker HS
Team 2587 | DiscoBots | Mentor | 2008-2011 | Rice University / Houston Food Bank
Team 3847 | Spectrum | Coach | 2012-20... | St Agnes Academy
LRI | Alamo Regional | 2014-20...
"Competition has been shown to be useful up to a certain point and no further, but cooperation, which is the thing we must strive for today, begins where competition leaves off." - Franklin D. Roosevelt
Reply With Quote
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 13-08-2013, 16:25
Andrew Schreiber Andrew Schreiber is offline
Joining the 900 Meme Team
FRC #0079
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Misplaced Michigander
Posts: 4,068
Andrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FRC "Survival Scenario" Exercise

I'll play...

1 Initial registration fee (1 regional OR 2 districts)
2 Registration Fee for additional regional OR district championship
3 A mentor of your choice with expertise in all non-engineering matters
4 A mentor of your choice with mechanical engineering expertise
5 Basic hand tools + Measurement tools + Electrical tools (nothing powered)
6 Basic power tools (Cordless drill + bit set, Dremel, etc.)
7 An active teacher and supportive school of your choice (1)
8 A mentor of your choice with FRC strategic design expertise
9 Full Size Practice Area (Space, Carpet, Driver Stations - No Game Elements)
10 Team Meeting Area (2)
11 Six additional batteries and chargers
12 $500 voucher for VEX/VEX Pro
13 $500 voucher for AndyMark
14 $500 worth of raw material (aluminum, steel, polycarb)
15 A mentor of your choice with programming expertise
16 A mentor of your choice with electrical engineering expertise
17 Travel expenses (hotel, transportation, food) for two competition events
18 Lathe & tooling
19 Drill press & bit set + Band saw
20 $500 voucher for Lowe’s or Home Depot
21 $500 Visa Debit Card
22 Laser OR water jet cutter
23 A mentor of your choice with CAD/Inventor expertise
24 Team Uniforms (sufficient quantity for all team members)
25 Mill & tooling
26 $500 voucher for McMaster-Carr
27 Two Laptops with OS + Internet access
28 Belt sander + grinder + arbor press
29 3 Axis CNC & tooling
30 Sheet metal bending capabilities
31 Pit Set Up of your choice + Robot Cart
32 Team Button Give Aways (sufficient quantity for all events)
33 Unique Team Give Away (sufficient quantity for all events)
34 Welding capabilities


I'm assuming that any tools come with knowledge of operation...

My list is different due to the fact that you said I keep my students. Which means I retain the resources they bring in. I have the benefit of being in a relatively affluent area in which almost all of my students have ready access to a computer at home. It also means I can expect students to cover their travel cost (we currently do) Options 1-11 are assured, this means I've done my best to build a group that can provide the next couple key items (most notably recruiting mentors and raising the small amount of funds needed to build a simple effective robot). 12-20 are things that would be nice to have given to me but that I can ultimately get given 1-11 and a few months of work. 21-34 are things that would be nice to have but ultimately don't impact my ability to get things done.

In fact, I'd be willing to say that given 1-15 on my list (and some dedicated students) I could say with relatively few doubts that we could put together a solid robot that would play in the afternoon at almost any regional and has a high chance of seeding high.
__________________




.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 17:40.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi