CNC Router vs 3D Printer

[Ian Curtis]

Originally Posted by IanW

At this point, I envision myself using the device as a tool for personal and school projects (I'm a junior in college), as well as possibly for FRC. I would like a personal router or printer as opposed to using the tools at my college's machine shop because I would like to have unfettered access. That is, I want to be able to use it for projects outside of classes without having my motives questioned, so to speak.

What is the problem with using school equipment for your own projects? I would think most schools would be ecstatic to have students doing cool stuff with their machinery. At RPI the hand tools were free, and the 3D printers/router/laser/water-jet was available to us at cost, which is stupid cheap compared to buying it yourself. It seems like it might be worth talking to a Dean about student access to machines, because most schools are ecstatic to have students doing their own projects on top of classwork.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

Assuming you are printing ABS.

Heated beds also help with PLA. Speaking from experience here, though, a lower temperature helps more with PLA.

[CENTURION]

As others have said, a CNC router is going to be a lot more versatile than a 3D printer. However, in a college dorm room, a router is going to be right out. It's going to be loud, heavy, and very messy.

If, for whatever reason you were still interested in a router though, you can build a very nice one on your own for your price range. If you've built FRC robots, you already have 90% of the knowledge required to design and build a CNC router. This fella on youtube is what I always recommend people check out. He built a home CNC router out of 80/20, with great accuracy, and more than enough rigidity to cut aluminum without issue, for I think $2500 or so. He's also mentioned that he's working on a kit version that he will sell if he gets enough interest.

He's got tons of video documentation, as well as a number of videos explaining components that the average person might not be familiar with (Linear guides, ballscrews, etc)

[magnets]

Our team has a 4' x 8' CNC router, and it is the tool our team uses the most. It's awesome for prototyping, as we can make shooter rails out of plywood or hdpe in less than 10 minutes. If you plan to cut aluminum sheet on it, try to ask the manufacturer/distributor which settings will work the best. You need to find a way to get rid of the chips/cool it/and make sure the feed rate is set correctly. We use the 1/8" mcmaster bits and we use compressed air to make sure the chips don't accumulate. Once you figure out the setup for your machine, you're all set and you don't have to play with it ever again.

We've used 2 3d printers, and while we liked one of them, we didn't think it was that useful. The first one we used was very temperamental, and would often get stuck or make a bad part. The other was significantly more expensive( > $10,000) and we couldn't seem to find a part that we couldn't make with a lathe, mill, and cnc router. Plus, the plastic was REALLY expensive, about $10 per cubic inch!

[Foster]

Who makes and what is the model number of the 4' * 8' router? Any idea what it cost?

[magnets]

The 4' x 8' was a shopbot, although I don't know the model number off the top of my head. They don't sell it any more but the replacement was this.

http://www.shopbottools.com/mProducts/prSalpha.htm

I know that when we bought it, the list price was under 15k, and somehow we managed to get it for less. We also went for the spindle instead of the router because we cut aluminum a lot. It's used in all the tech classes in our school, including the electric vehicle class, where it makes the body panels for the cars.

It's the best purchase our team has ever made, and we're really happy with the results. By the end of build season, we have freshmen who have never heard of CNC before who have learned how to operate the thing by themselves.

[techhelpbb]

Originally Posted by magnets

The 4' x 8' was a shopbot

I've used plenty of ShopBots they are great machines to have.
Just my two cents.

[IanW]

Everyone has brought up good points, so I'll try to address some of the major ones.

Originally Posted by Ian Curtis

What is the problem with using school equipment for your own projects? I would think most schools would be ecstatic to have students doing cool stuff with their machinery.

I'm actually not sure what the policy is at my school (OSU). I will look into it, but I would feel guilty if a personal project got in the way of senior design or class projects.

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

What kind of projects do you expect to be working on while you finish up school?

For the projects I currently have in mind, I think a 3D printer may actually be more useful. The few I have been considering would not experience heavy loads that require aluminum plate or anything of that nature. It would certainly be cool, but not necessary.

As I mentioned, I had some exposure to 3D printed parts in FRC, was pleased with the results, and was intrigued by the possibilities. It isn't based on hearing some online hype. Again, using it for FRC is not the primary purpose, merely an added benefit. I came here to draw upon the community's general treasure trove of knowledge.
I should have made it clearer, but I was in part asking whether the parts produced from a low to mid-range consumer printer would be at all comparable to the high end consumer printer (uPrint SE) that I have experience with.

For those suggesting to get a router, did you look at the system I spec'd out in the excel document attached to the OP? Assuming I was able to solve the issue of where to keep it, would you suggest any other parts or improvements? Or even a different system entirely?

[techhelpbb]

Originally Posted by IanW

For those suggesting to get a router, did you look at the system I spec'd out in the excel document attached to the OP? Assuming I was able to solve the issue of where to keep it, would you suggest any other parts or improvements? Or even a different system entirely?

Frankly I suggest the 3D printer if that's what you want.
Just be prepared it will be obsolete before you blink.

However I have the following concerns about your spreadsheet:

1. What does the first choice use for the stepper controller / driver?
The Gecko is an excellent product I would recommend it.
It is already in the second choice you present.

2. Do the electronics kits include the power supplies?
If not budget for that as well.

Both of these kits (the first I have actually assembled before for someone) are ACME screw kits.
They have power loss in the screws and no provision to gear them (direct shaft coupled).
Their rapids are listed unloaded. In short you won't move anywhere near that fast while doing any operation.
These are more targeted for engraving on aluminum and working softer materials like wood.
You could work on aluminum with this but very slowly.
Neither system includes the coolant you might want for working aluminum.
You could retrofit this into a 3D printer but the Z axis depth might be a limit to consider.

Neither system includes any kind of dust collection or enclosure.

[Mk.32]

Oh... yeah a Router is NOT happening in a dorm room. They may not even let you bring in an 3D printer based on the heating element (Mine doesn't let you bring appliances and lava lamps).

For a college your best bet would probably be gaining access to an shop on campus via a club or getting to know the instructor. Or finding an local makerspace or hackerspace.

[techhelpbb]

Originally Posted by Mk.32

Oh... yeah a Router is NOT happening in a dorm room. They may not even let you bring in an 3D printer based on the heating element (Mine doesn't let you bring appliances and lava lamps).

For a college your best bet would probably be gaining access to an shop on campus via a club or getting to know the instructor. Or finding an local makerspace or hackerspace.

Where there's a will. There's an incandescant light bulb bed heater.
It's becomes more an Easy Bake Oven anyway.
What I didn't bring the heater with the printer...I just found it here

[kaliken]

I saw a couple people say it but I don't think the community really did latch onto it.

First off, You are in college. You are paying to go to school there. Use the machines and the facilities you are paying for! There is a reason why they have a machine shop. Its not only for research but its also the place you can learn proper machining practices. I cant tell you how much I learned from my shop managers.

Second, learn to manage your time to maximize machine shop usage. Know that the machine shop has open hours, or that sometimes you may not have access due to senior projects. But.... if you get in good with the shop guys then there are untold benefits. (ie running CNC's later at night, or even a paid stipend..)

Third, if you are in a dorm room... it just seems silly to try to pack something like that in. Enough said.. Off campus living then maybe, but then again I would refer to point 1.

When you graduate and get a more permanent place.. then by all means go for it.

But then again that is my 2 cents.

[protoserge]

If the school shop doesn't work out, there might be a maker space within range. I would venture to say your funds would go a lot farther (a lot more tools for the dollar), even if you have to pay a few bills for a monthly membership.

[colin340]

Originally Posted by DampRobot

I'd agree with Adam, if you're interested in making stuff that's more versatile, go with a router.


Lots of people are making a huge deal out of the "3D printing revolution," but the truth of the matter is 3D printers are only good for very small run, complex, non structural plastic parts, like trial electronics cases or miniature sculptures. There will be no real manufacturing revolution (as some reporters and politicians are hoping for) unless 3D printers start printing much more durable materials, become much much faster, or become able to print electronics as well as plastic materials. For the moment though, I'd prefer using a subtractive CNC tool (like a router) any day of the week.

your soo right about this, the hype is out of control
CNC routers are way more useful if you have some knowledge of woods and how to design for it

[techhelpbb]

The value of 3D printing depends on the lens you consider it with.

There are many more applications for this technology than what most people consider because they approach it with the lens of PLA, ABS and say carpentry or metal working.

The idea of a small X/Y/Z robot able to deposit finite amounts of material extend into biosciences, aerospace, nuclear engineering and so many other fields. Hence why Dean himself referenced the technology when communicating with the Coca-Cola corporation.

By increasing the size of the community with that know-how the odds of pollinating major changes in technology are extremely high.

However in a consumer society running down and buying the latest off-the-shelf is the way most people are comfortable acquiring technology.

So it all depends on the viewer and their intentions.

As a 'do-it-yourselfer' from early in the RepRap project my expectations differ dramatically from other people.