Best Theoretical Alliance

[xForceDee]

Hey guys. A couple of teammates and I were discussing what teams put together would make the best alliance for 2013. After the discussion, I thought it would be interesting to see what other people thought so I searched Chief Delphi and found nothing (if I missed it please link me to it); therefore, I decided to start this thread.

I recognize that there are so many great teams out there that there really is no right answer, but I thought it would be fun to do it anyway. My picks would be 2056, 1114 and 67. I realize that this alliance has no defense, but I am thinking 100 points in climb and dumping plus a 78 point autonomous plus whatever the get in teleop (which I assume will be over 100) will be enough to beat any other alliance combination.

That is just my opinion, but I would love to see your picks as I didn't get a chance to watch everyone.

[AlecMataloni]

469, 987, 67

[jwallace15]

Originally Posted by AlecMataloni

469, 987, 67

^ This

In my opinion the alliance would still be amazing if 33 was swapped in for 469 or 987, but it would be legendary as is too.

[Joe Ross]

Here is a previous thread on this subject: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=117063

[Boe]

254, 67, 1114 /thread

[avanboekel]

Originally Posted by AlecMataloni

469, 987, 67

I would swap 2056 for 987, although you could make a case for either.

[EricDrost]

Originally Posted by avanboekel

I would swap 2056 for 987, although you could make a case for either.

I think 987 is about the strategic depth. 2056 is better at what they do (heck, the best in the world at what they do) but I think 469/987/67 could beat any alliance thrown at them because they can pick from a handful of strategies to get the win. Plus, there isn't a team in the world with a better center-line auto.

If you're just going for highest theoretical score, 2056 would most likely be on that alliance just from sheer volume of discs. But there's a lot more to winning than just high scores. Ex: The alliance against 2056 is really good at starving discs and beats them out on climb points.

[lemiant]

2056 is getting undervalued in these rankings. In fact, the numbers suggest that 2056 is the best floor pick up of all. From Ed Law's spreadsheet:

987
OPR: 88
Auto OPR: 23

469
OPR: 81
Auto OPR: 24

2056
OPR: 91
Auto OPR: 32

I'd hazard that we actually saw pretty close to the best possible alliance in 1114, 2056, 1334 at IRI. I could definitely see the argument for having 469 or 67 instead of 1334 to bring full court shooting along with their respective strengths. But when 67 is blocked (as the would almost always be at the highest level) they aren't really better than 1334 - in fact when they went head to head in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wfr6RVx0AZA 1334 scored 8 more points. If that wasn't the best alliance possible it wasn't far off.

[Pault]

I would go for 67-254-469. In autonomous they would be capable of getting the maximum 90 points. In teleop they would have 2 good options. 1 would be to play a similar strategy to 469's championship alliance (67 full court shoots, 254 sweeps the floor, and 469 just does what a 469 does). The other option is because 254 has such an awesome drivetrain, they could defend 67 while 469 focuses on sweeping the floor. End game is obvious: 50 points from 67, 30 from 254, 10 from 469.

[KrazyCarl92]

The alliance that would best maximize points scored would have to be 254, 67, 1114. This alliance doesn't leave any climb points on the table, could get all 6 colored discs into the pyramid, and also has a 7 disc auto in addition to 1114 blocking the center line from most center line auto modes. Add 67's FCS to an alliance that already has 3 solid teleop scorers and they could consistently empty their feeder station of discs, and accurately too.

Switching out 1114 or 67 for a robot that can get the center line but doesn't climb above 10 would sacrifice 30 points to gain 12.

Switching out 254 for a robot with a more accurate 7 disc auto would be sacrificing 20 points in climbing for maybe a 6 point auto advantage on average.

In teleop, all that matters is emptying your feeder station as consistently as possible and scoring some of your opponent's misses, and this alliance could already do that very well. This means it would make little sense to switch any of these robots out for another robot based on teleop performance because there would be almost no marginal gain in overall alliance teleop performance, but it necessitates sacrificing plenty of points elsewhere.

[evanperryg]

I am going to do this using the IRI scouting data.
All of these numbers are from most-mindblowing to least-mindblowing.

The top 10 scorers were 2056, 118, 33, 1114, 195, 868, 624, 67, 4265, 987.
The most consistent scorers were 2056(with 99.89% accuracy ), 33, 195, 868, 118, 1114, 4265, 1477, 624, 987.
The best autonomous scorers were 2056, 1538, 33, 624, 1310, 1477, 1625, 469, 118, 2590.
The best teleop scorers were 2056, 118, 195, 868, 4265, 11, 33, 359, 987, 1114.
The best endgame scorers were 1114, 67, 3467, 1640, 71, 148, 1334(someone goofed this data, they should be higher). Everything below that is a level 1 climb. Also, 2826 should be on this list after getting their climber dialed in at the last minute.

Based on this, 2056, 1114, 33.
Non-mathematically, I would say 67, 2056, 118.
Also, just for fun, I would want to see an unofficial alliance of 1114, 67, 254, 1334, 71, and 1640 just to see how many robots we can cram on the top of one pyramid. Maybe, if 254 leaves enough space we could add 2826(the newer 2826 bot) and 3467. maybe fit 148 on the last open side. 1334 does the dump since theirs is the most consistent. 67 takes the other 2 colored discs and does them. that's 30 points. There are 9 level 3 climbs on the pyramid. That's a total of exactly 300 points on the pyramid.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by evanperryg

I am going to do this using the IRI scouting data.
All of these numbers are from most-mindblowing to least-mindblowing.

The top 10 scorers were 2056, 118, 33, 1114, 195, 868, 624, 67, 4265, 987.
The most consistent scorers were 2056(with 99.89% accuracy ), 33, 195, 868, 118, 1114, 4265, 1477, 624, 987.
The best autonomous scorers were 2056, 1538, 33, 624, 1310, 1477, 1625, 469, 118, 2590.
The best teleop scorers were 2056, 118, 195, 868, 4265, 11, 33, 359, 987, 1114.
The best endgame scorers were 1114, 67, 3467, 1640, 71, 148, 1334(someone goofed this data, they should be higher). Everything below that is a level 1 climb. Also, 2826 should be on this list after getting their climber dialed in at the last minute.

Based on this, 2056, 1114, 33.
Non-mathematically, I would say 67, 2056, 118.
Also, just for fun, I would want to see an unofficial alliance of 1114, 67, 254, 1334, 71, and 1640 just to see how many robots we can cram on the top of one pyramid. Maybe, if 254 leaves enough space we could add 2826(the newer 2826 bot) and 3467. maybe fit 148 on the last open side. 1334 does the dump since theirs is the most consistent. 67 takes the other 2 colored discs and does them. that's 30 points. There are 9 level 3 climbs on the pyramid. That's a total of exactly 300 points on the pyramid.

As an aside, would you mind publishing your scouting data somewhere? On 11, we were all a bit surprised to not be selected, seeing some numbers would be a fun way to find out why.

[evanperryg]

67, 254, 1114 for the fcs/sweeper/cycler system.
67, 1806, 148 for a fcs/fcs/fcs system. This was the one strategy I really wanted to see all season, just to see if it would work.
4265, 610, 2338 for a no-ground pickup, level 1 climb, cycler alliance. Ok, maybe I'm a little biased.

Originally Posted by AlecMataloni

469, 987, 67

I'd love to see this alliance pull off a constant 2-robot FCS of 67 and 469, and have 987 switching between a third FCS and ground-pickup to get any missed discs.

[Jay O'Donnell]

I think I've discussed this topic in multiple threads already, but I'll share my input anyways. The answer in my mind is fairly simple-1114, 67, 254. A lot of people are arguing for teams like 2056, 469, and 987. While these three teams are better than just about anybody individually, they lack certain qualities that allow them to be part of the "dream team". The reason that I picked the three teams that I did is they carry the maximum possible climbing points (3 30 point climbs and all 6 colored discs), they have a 13 disc auto, and under optimal conditions could score over 300 points (I calculated it before and it was something like 345). The main argument I hear against this is that this team doesn't get the 15 disc auto. However, the climbing points of a 50 point climb and dump far outweigh the effects of two more auto discs. The only team that could make this alliance possibly better: 1918. They are the only team (as far as I'm aware) to have a 7 disc auto and a 50 point climb. If they were able to still score all of the teleop discs with 1918 replacing 1114, then the 1918-67-254 alliance would theoretically be better (albeit by 12 points).