Limiting the Strategy of the Game

[Andy Grady]

Now, once again I can't really pass judgment on the whole autonomous period deal until after I see the competition, because after all, I hated the idea of alliances when they first introduced them...now I can't imagine FIRST without them. Also I understand that it does add a nice twist to the game and a pretty cool thing for programmers and so forth, however, I believe that this is going to make the game rougher on many teams...at least until we hit the national competition. How many times have you seen teams still trying to build a robot at the competition (practice day)? As you know, each robot behaves differently from another, so each robot needs to be tested for its autonomous programming, or they will be flying blindly. I can see many teams who were behind all the way to the end of the year, go into round 1 and totally flop because they have had absolutely no time to test and debug their autonomous programs on the actual working machine for this year.

From a strategic standpoint, autonomous mode does add an interesting facet that we have to focus on, however, at the same time it highly limits a teams ability to adjust to the competition. There have been many occasions in the past where a very important strategy was thought of after watching many matches and used during late rounds. Each regional is different from one another. More physical regionals in the east tend to have a whole different look and strategy than the more offensive regionals in the mid-west, or the more passive regionals in the west. By limiting teams to the number of autonomous programs that they have created and tested, this takes away from adjusting to competition style.

Like I said before...the most important move in strategy is the opening move. Now, we are limited on the number of things that we can do in that move.

I will agree with this though...this game should be alot of fun to watch and compete in, autonomous mode included.

Good Luck All,
Andy Grady

[Matthew936]

I am on a rookie team that has decent knowledge of Pbasic. and when i first saw the video for the game i remember thinking just how cool autoonomous mode was. Now that i think about it i must disagree. regardless of how good your programmers are there will be some strategy that you have no counter program for. now by making the most important part of the game where a team may know what thier robot needs to do, but can't tell thier robot to do that is ridiculous.

Then again, We could be that team with an unexpected strategy

[sevisehda]

There is always a way to counter someone. It may not always be in the programming though. If someone can drive to the wall in 2 seconds and it takes you 6 you could program until your fingers fell off but it wouldn't help. Instead its a mechanicle limitation. When we brainstormed about strategy part of it was killing every idea someone had. The point was to figure out weaknesses in the ideas we had so we didn't come up with something easily countered but also figure out how to counter the other ideas.

To conclude there is always a way to counter someone. Your robot may not be able to do it physically but others teams will be able to counter them. If its a matter of programming I gaurentee the finals will be won by teams who can write prorams to work in perfect harmony and counter what the other alliance will do.

[Gope]

Bottom Line:

Automous(sp) mode limits posibilites because a simple processor cannot compute the same amount of information as the human mind. So, basicly, you are left with a limit on opening match strategy. This is very simple, you cannot argue it.

Also, from what I can tell all the programers like the idea and all the other people hate it.

[Kris Verdeyen]

Autonomous mode is fantastic. Like it or not, the science of robotics rests on software and electronics as much as mechanical engineering. With the addition of custom circuits last year and autonomous mode this year, FIRST has finally acknowledged that fact.

Is FIRST less like a sport than it was last year? Sure, but who cares? Autonomous mode lets FIRST robots become more whole.

[RoboCoder]

I believe we have all established the fact that adding in the autonomous mode in the beginning limits the "Reflex" ability in the first 15 seconds (aka having those 15 seconds human controlled would make it easier to react to changing conditions and change strategies on the fly). However, I believe that the autonomous mode is adding another challenge to the competition. The fact is that the mechanical people dislike it because they are no longer in control for those 15 seconds. The programmers of teams like it because they gain control of the robot for those 15 seconds, as well as becomming an essential part of the team, where teams in the past have been able to get away with doing well using the default code. I think that this change is definately for the better in the long run because it is more representative in real life. In the real world, once you create something, chances are that you wont be spending the rest of your life at the controls of that machine. In the case of a robot, then the programming takes over for where the human was previously controlling the robot. The human may not like having to leave the robot on its own, but it is for the better in the end. The truth of the matter is, that in these days and in the coming years, programming is and will be JUST as important as the mechanical side of robotics. FIRST is now adapting to get tomorrows future engineers to realize that. Sure, there is an added degree of separation between the human mind and the robot's actions, but it is nessisary in the end. I strongly believe that the autonomous mode is a great addition to an already great competition where both mechanical and programming skills are required. Yes, rookie teams without decent programmers will struggle a bit more, but so will rookie teams without decent mechanical people. So any way you look at it, rookie teams (or teams lacking in one of these two areas) will be at a disadvantage, but that is a major part of the competition: being able to work wonders with the material and talent that is available to you, which is the same reason why there are so many restrictions on what parts you can and cannot use. In the end it opens up more opportunities for inginuity and creative thought.

This is getting pretty long, (by the length of it it looks like I gave my $0.04 lol), but I felt compelled to share my perspective with other teams. That is what these forums are for is it not? anyways, good luck to all teams, and hope to see you at nationals!