Poll: Views on the 6 Week Build Season

[Clem1640]

There is a lot of wisdom to having a hard stop to build season. One is that I (hopefully) get to keep my day job, sanity, etc.

More seriously, it imposes a sense of urgency not shared by other robotics programs. It is part of what makes FRC both as challenging and as rewarding as it is.

Also, in real life real projects have real finish dates. Get used to this!

[Ed Law]

I voted for 6 weeks. There is no good reason to change it. This allows us to "lie" to sponsors, potential mentors, people you want to impress that it was all done in 6 weeks. Technically we are not lying because the robot is there after 6 weeks. For many teams, it just usually doesn't work very well if at all. After the 6 weeks, it is not part of the "build season" any more. We got to spend more money and work on the practice robot for as long as we want, sometimes even spending more hours per week than the build season.

Some people are talking about a hard deadline of 6 weeks, adding rules to disallow practice robots, or anything that is used to get around the rules. That will really let people relax and happy after 6 weeks. (please note sarcasm)

[Steve W]

Deadlines are a part of life. Challenging ones self to meet the deadline with the best robot one can build. Every team has the option to build a second robot. Can that be stopped? No, people will just call it another project. Right now I believe there should not be a hold back rule and that no additional mechanisms be brought into events. If you want to design, fine but build at event from raw material.

As an aging mentor I find it harder to go 6 + weeks and then volunteer at events. We all get tired and as was said earlier we will fill any time given and will still want more.

Accept the challenge, be proud of your 6 weeks work.

[Carl C]

Any longer than six weeks, and we would get even more burnt out than we already do!

[AllenGregoryIV]

I voted 10+, I didn't like shipping the robot when I was a student and I don't like bagging the robot now that I am a mentor.

There will always be a deadline, it will just be the same as off season events, your first match.

[Kevin Pardus]

The 6.5-week Build Season does not seem to be a maintainable option in the near future.

Since the 2010 FRC Season, the number of competition weeks and events has increased significantly (see chart below). The FIRST Championship (CMP) seems to have been pushed back as far as it can go. The VEX World Championship (17-20 Apr 2013, 23-26 Apr 2014, and 22-25 Apr 2015) now basically coincides with FIRST's CMP dates.

It is very safe to say that more Regional-Region and District events will be added in the coming years. FiM now has 12 District events scheduled for the 2014 season, while PNW has 10. Once FiM, PNW or another Region reaches the need for 13 or more District events within its Region; I think more competition weeks will be needed, since it will be very hard for a Region to manage 3 District events on a single weekend. If the 6.5-week Build Season is to be maintained, it will mean a December Kick-off and Start Date for future Build Seasons. It also means you are going to have a Build Season that will overlap most High School Winter Breaks (may not be a good idea) or have to enforce an arbitrary Stop-build period over the Holiday Season.

The increase in the number of competition weeks and events also needs to consider the possibility of Super-Regionals or Intermediate Championships being added to the FRC tournament advancement structure, as has been done for FTC this competition season. VEX VRC has changed their tournament advancement structure this season as well; it now includes a State Championship level for advancement to the VEX World Championship. So eventually, we could end up with a November Kick-off and Start Date for future Build Seasons or just might end-up going year-round.


Season / Weeks / Competition Dates / # Regionals / # Region CMPs / Districts / FIRST CMP Dates / Total Events

2010 / 5 / 04 Mar-03 Apr / 43 / 1 / 07 / 15-17 Apr / 52
2011 / 6 / 03 Mar-09 Apr / 48 / 1 / 09 / 27-30 Apr / 59
2012 / 7 / 01 Mar-14 Apr / 52 / 2 / 15 / 25-28 Apr / 70
2013 / 7 / 28 Feb-13 Apr / 58 / 2 / 17 / 24-27 Apr / 78
2014 / 7 / 27 Feb-12 Apr / 54 / 4 / 37 / 23-26 Apr / 96

Regions: FiM, MAR, FINE, & PNW

[Pault]

Originally Posted by Kevin Pardus

The 6.5-week Build Season does not seem to be a maintainable option in the near future.

Since the 2010 FRC Season, the number of competition weeks and events has increased significantly (see chart below). The FIRST Championship (CMP) seems to have been pushed back as far as it can go. The VEX World Championship (17-20 Apr 2013, 23-26 Apr 2014, and 22-25 Apr 2015) now basically coincides with FIRST's CMP dates.

It is very safe to say that more Regional-Region and District events will be added in the coming years. FiM now has 12 District events scheduled for the 2014 season, while PNW has 10. Once FiM, PNW or another Region reaches the need for 13 or more District events within its Region; I think more competition weeks will be needed, since it will be very hard for a Region to manage 3 District events on a single weekend. If the 6.5-week Build Season is to be maintained, it will mean a December Kick-off and Start Date for future Build Seasons. It also means you are going to have a Build Season that will overlap most High School Winter Breaks (may not be a good idea) or have to enforce an arbitrary Stop-build period over the Holiday Season.

The increase in the number of competition weeks and events also needs to consider the possibility of Super-Regionals or Intermediate Championships being added to the FRC tournament advancement structure, as has been done for FTC this competition season. VEX VRC has changed their tournament advancement structure this season as well; it now includes a State Championship level for advancement to the VEX World Championship. So eventually, we could end up with a November Kick-off and Start Date for future Build Seasons or just might end-up going year-round.


Season / Weeks / Competition Dates / # Regionals / # Region CMPs / Districts / FIRST CMP Dates / Total Events

2010 / 5 / 04 Mar-03 Apr / 43 / 1 / 07 / 15-17 Apr / 52
2011 / 6 / 03 Mar-09 Apr / 48 / 1 / 09 / 27-30 Apr / 59
2012 / 7 / 01 Mar-14 Apr / 52 / 2 / 15 / 25-28 Apr / 70
2013 / 7 / 28 Feb-13 Apr / 58 / 2 / 17 / 24-27 Apr / 78
2014 / 7 / 27 Feb-12 Apr / 54 / 4 / 37 / 23-26 Apr / 96

Regions: FiM, MAR, FINE, & PNW

Or... we could just push the championships back into May. Why not?

And eventually we are going to need to have more events per weekend. The only limitation to this that I can think of is lack of volunteers (yes it would cost more money, but that is what districts are solving). However the solution isn't to add more weeks so that volunteers can volunteer at more events, that is just asking far too much of them.

I just don't understand why this is an issue to you. But whatever the issue is, adding more competition weeks is a temporary solution to a permanent problem.

[moogboy]

Originally Posted by Pault

Or... we could just push the championships back into May. Why not?

In states like Michigan where public schools are by law required to start after Labor Day (meaning they finish in mid June), that's reasonable. I think it's somewhat common for seniors to get out early (correct me if I'm wrong), however. For my school (and as a private school, we started in mid to late August) that meant that seniors finals happened in mid May. Say what you will about seniors giving up and not caring about anything at that point, but it would be painfully difficult for any senior to crack a book of any kind at champs from what I've heard. And what if finals fell on the week after worlds? having worlds at the end of April is about as far back as it could be pushed for seniors who get out in May, in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Kevin Pardus

It is very safe to say that more Regional-Region and District events will be added in the coming years. FiM now has 12 District events scheduled for the 2014 season, while PNW has 10. Once FiM, PNW or another Region reaches the need for 13 or more District events within its Region; I think more competition weeks will be needed, since it will be very hard for a Region to manage 3 District events on a single weekend. If the 6.5-week Build Season is to be maintained, it will mean a December Kick-off and Start Date for future Build Seasons. It also means you are going to have a Build Season that will overlap most High School Winter Breaks (may not be a good idea) or have to enforce an arbitrary Stop-build period over the Holiday Season.

I would kill for the chance to work on the challenge over winter break. Again, this is a goofy side effect of the school I went to, but we have always had kickoff, followed by first semester finals starting the monday/tuesday after kickoff. 2013 was a fluke in that we had a whole week between kickoff and finals, but no matter how you look at it, the stress of finals combined with the start of building a robot takes a toll on a team. If we had our Christmas/New Year's break to work on our robot, that would be a massive, fantastic boon. It's always difficult to wrangle students during breaks, but since teams have established patterns of extremely long days on weekends when students have homework and everything else pulling at their time, I don't think it's unreasonable.

[Pault]

Originally Posted by moogboy

In states like Michigan where public schools are by law required to start after Labor Day (meaning they finish in mid June), that's reasonable. I think it's somewhat common for seniors to get out early (correct me if I'm wrong), however. For my school (and as a private school, we started in mid to late August) that meant that seniors finals happened in mid May. Say what you will about seniors giving up and not caring about anything at that point, but it would be painfully difficult for any senior to crack a book of any kind at champs from what I've heard. And what if finals fell on the week after worlds? having worlds at the end of April is about as far back as it could be pushed for seniors who get out in May, in my opinion.

Your right, I forgot about the seniors. My school is the same way. But I still feel like winter break could cause a lot of problems for some teams (especially teams who are actually based off of a class in school).

[mdituri]

Originally Posted by Pault

Your right, I forgot about the seniors. My school is the same way. But I still feel like winter break could cause a lot of problems for some teams (especially teams who are actually based off of a class in school).

I have always thought about having build season be in November and December including the holidays, but it would be incredibly difficult for teams who are school based; some schools cannot meet if their school is closed.

I would love to see:
Build in Nov/Dec. Districts in January/February. Regionals and Regional Championships in February/March. Worlds in April with more than 2 weeks to get airline tickets.

We can't go into May for many reasons, including AP testing.

[bduddy]

6 weeks... a real 6 weeks. Clamp down on all that other stuff teams do between then and the competition. It's already an honor system anyway, so why not?

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by bduddy

6 weeks... a real 6 weeks. Clamp down on all that other stuff teams do between then and the competition. It's already an honor system anyway, so why not?

What do you mean by this?

What's your definition of "a real 6 weeks?"

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by Pault

Or... we could just push the championships back into May. Why not?

AP, IB, and state testing.

[HP42S]

Originally Posted by bduddy

6 weeks... a real 6 weeks. Clamp down on all that other stuff teams do between then and the competition. It's already an honor system anyway, so why not?

Apologies in advance since I've never done FRC before, this could be an obvious question that everyone but me knows the answer to. I see lots of pictures and threads about people building their new drive base and what not during the off-season but how can they know what to build before the January game release? What if you're a rookie team and don't have a KOP from last season? Are you at a disadvantage before you even start?
Maybe it's better to start an unofficial team in the off-season and just buy the same stuff as the previous season KOP then you'd have some experience pre-kickoff plus you could, well, pre-build your drive base like all the other teams seem to do! Or does the game vary enough to force a chassis design change at kickoff? My observation is the same basic drive base seems to have been in the KOP for a few years.

Probably just proven I have no clue....

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by HP42S

Probably just proven I have no clue....

Don't feel bad, you'd have no way of knowing having not competed before.

Teams make these as prototypes, and don't use those specific drives for the following season.

They remake it during season (often with some changes to match the game).