Water cooling?

[kc8nod]

Is water cooling legal?

Common sense tells me that it is not. But I'm having trouble finding which rule prohibits it.
Could someone enlighten me and cite the rule?

[Kyle Fenton]

No its not. I don't know the exact rule, but the only cooling can be done from the fans and/or heat sinks. The motors heat up, but they don't heat up to the point where they need that kind of coolant power.

[AJ Quick]

I think water itself is also on the restricted materials list.

[Katie Reynolds]

::cringe:: Last year, some team decided to spray our robot with a water bottle right before a match - and they sprayed right over the electronics! ::cringe::

If you think you are going to need to cool your motors down, trying spraying cold spray on your motors and electronics before and/or after a match. It helps a lot!

- Katie

[hi_im_sean]

spraying water on your electronics?!?!...
is that a good idea?... i think not

[Rickertsen2]

i have a peltier-watercooled computer.

[Adam Y.]

Last year, some team decided to spray our robot with a water bottle right before a match - and they sprayed right over the electronics!

I hope that team got into serious trouble if you did not give them consent to do so. Can we all say stupid or sabatoge??

[Manoel]

Originally posted by kc8nod
Is water cooling legal?

Common sense tells me that it is not. But I'm having trouble finding which rule prohibits it.
Could someone enlighten me and cite the rule?

Using the "Parts Use Flowchart", this is what I found:

- Radiator: Okay to use
- Tubing: I think they disallow tubing for anything other than pneumatics, but I guess it would be ok to use PVC pipes or something like that.
- Large Fan: They even include one in the kit
- Heatsink/Copper block: Ok to use
- Water: Seems ok to use, but the item "Is the part a safety hazard or likely to damage robots, the field, or interfere with
humans or the controls?" is a bit subjective, as a water leakage would likely damage the field and/or other robots.
- Pump: That you can't use for sure, but I don't think you really need a pump for a two minute match, you don't actually have to move water around; that water doesn't really need to be cooled. In fact, maybe you don't need the radiator also.

That is just my interpretation of the rules, I think you should ask FIRST. If they do forbid you, it'll probably be because of the "safety hazard" thing.

Hope that helps.

[Katie Reynolds]

Originally posted by wysiswyg
I hope that team got into serious trouble if you did not give them consent to do so. Can we all say stupid or sabatoge??

It was more like, "Hey, it's really hot out here! You were just saying that you needed your electronics cooled - I've got some water!" ::spray::

It was a nice gesture ... just, yeah. Heh heh.

- Katie

[kc8nod]

Originally posted by Manoel
Using the "Parts Use Flowchart", this is what I found:
...
Hope that helps.

That about what I was thinking. The way I read the rules, the only thing that would prohibit water cooling would be if water was considered a safety hazard. That sounds like a judgement call on the part of the inspector.

An off the shelf water pump would be illegal since Update #1 states that only motors from the kit are allowed. However if you made a pump using one of the kit motors, you should be legal.

So, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the water cooling is perfectly legal. Provided you don't use an off-the-shelf pump and the judge doesn't decide that water is dangerous per se.

Can someone prove me wrong?

Legal or not, I will agree that water cooling is probably overkill. But the idea sure is tempting when I think about the poor performance of my handmade heatsinks.

[yangotang]

Why would you want a peltier?

LOL did someone tell you that your system runs faster when it's cooler (bogus)?

[Gadget470]

On the original question, as far as I can see a water cooling system is not allowed.
From the flowchart:
Start->Safety Hazard?-(no)->Bumper?-(no)->In Kit?-(no)->Exotic Materials?-(no)->Spring?-(no)->Pnumatics/Hydraulics?-(YES)->Off Cylinder Order Form or off-shelf suction cup?-(no)->No, it may not be used

A water cooling system would by hydraulic, by definition: "Of, involving, moved by, or operated by a fluid, especially water, under pressure"

--

On the subject of computers running faster when cooled, this is mostly true. Heat buildups cause slowdowns, it's a fact. Melting components don't run very fast. And Pentium 4's have a heat protection built in. If they start getting to hot, they will cut back power to run cooler, but slower. Most GPU's also run a lot worse when they are hot. The color and all stay fine, but FPS drops as the load becomes to high on the weakening compontents.

A cool system is a happy system.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Water cooling is way off the list...
If I was judging your robot, I would first and foremost consider water to be an electrical hazard. (damage to robot electronics due to conductivity or to humans from hot coolant) If the cooler required a recirculating pump, the pump would be banned since it is not a kit part (motor). The potential for damage to the floor (any basketball court we may play on) may result from a leak, etc.
However, I have seen some interesting closed loop, convection coolers over the years. These were in sealed (soldered) pipe and some used exotic coolants but they worked. One I know of was used by RCA to cool power tubes in a vintage (1960s) video recorder. The weight of this additional material is still a factor and water is heavy.