Championship Location Announced

[Mike Starke]

Originally Posted by Alex2614

But organizing a group of high school kids (that don't know the area or venue) multiplied by a hundred other teams that never seem to actually know what is going on, in a venue with such a convoluted layout is a little different. Maybe not as daunting, but just different. I understand the daunting task that they have. I'm just saying that we have a different kind of daunting task. Maybe it's not as horrible as it seems. Maybe my particular team has been particularly unlucky with this. Who knows. I'm just sharing my personal experiences.

Sounds like you need to bring a more manageable number of students to Championship. If your team doesn't have the support it needs to supervise students in this environment, then cut back on the number of kids you bring.

[Ryan Dognaux]

Originally Posted by Libby K

I wasn't saying it's right or wrong, I'm saying it's realistic.

I will say it's completely the right call. I work for Boeing and we have executives that come out to the Championship every year. I want them to have the best experience possible, including viewing matches and speeches, because their support means Boeing team mentors can receive grant funding and help keep many teams running financially. The people that get to make the call on whether FIRST teams will receive millions of dollars in funding over a period of years should get the royal treatment. It's no secret that many companies are having to cut back, the least we can do is show our thanks to those that are still supporting FIRST on a much different level than most of us do.

[dtengineering]

Originally Posted by DevenStonow

...And I don't believe my question earlier was answered: other than Easter and existing venue contracts is there anything, competition structurewise, preventing VEX Worlds from being during the weekend between Week 7 and Championships?

Moving the VRC World Championship forward would require moving all of the VRC regional qualifying events forward, too.

That would mean moving forward all of the tournaments required to qualify for regional qualifying tournaments. Speaking as a VRC event/region organizer... the thought doesn't excite me.

Is it possible? Perhaps. But it is also equally possible to move the FRC build period into the six weeks before Christmas, and start the FRC competition season in January.

Equally impossible? Maybe that would have been better wording.

Jason

[IndySam]

Originally Posted by Karthik

I'm quite certain she would feel the same way if she was sitting in the stands.

Sure there are ways to optimize layouts to get more desirable seating for teams, but claiming that a VIP doesn't understand/care because they already have a good seat is pretty disingenuous.

Totally missed my point big guy.

Originally Posted by Libby K

IndySam's point is that the Einstein field faces the VIP boxes up top - in Atlanta, they were on the 'long side' of the arena rather than the 'short side' in STL.

I'm not trying to say that this layout is ideal - I'm just echoing Pat's point that FIRST is going to arrange the field so that VIPs have the opportunity to see the finals and major award ceremonies that are held on that stage. It is a fact of life that without their support, we would not be able to have FIRST events on the scale that we do currently. If VIPs and sponsors don't enjoy the show, they might not support us next year. And then where would we be?!

I wasn't saying it's right or wrong, I'm saying it's realistic.

Libby, Thanks for explaining my point.

I probably should have worded that better. I would never begrudge Libby her seat on the floor. If you have seen her at the champs she is non stop work.

My point is that it could be arranged much better. The hospitality area is looking at the Lego championship 90% of the competition and you can't see anything that's happening from up there. It would be better served if it was facing an FRC field.

VIP's could be given floor seats or a reserved area in the stands down low during opening ceremonies and the finals, most are down there anyway. I know that during the opening ceremonious most of the people in those hospitality area seats are regular FIRTSers like me who are lucky enough to have the connections to get a VIP pass.

[Cory]

If this argument is centered on VIP seats there are 360* of suites that can be used. No reason the boxes can't be moved to the sidelines, unless FIRST is using one of the special much larger box/club areas in the end zones, which I'm unsure of.

[Patrick Flynn]

Originally Posted by Cory

If this argument is centered on VIP seats there are 360* of suites that can be used. No reason the boxes can't be moved to the sidelines, unless FIRST is using one of the special much larger box/club areas in the end zones, which I'm unsure of.

The section that FIRST currently uses is not one of the boxes, but rather a club seating section. They are located behind the score board on each end. There is a open lobby area that has a sort of restaurant/ lounge area and then a couple sections of seats that open to the stadium floor below.
The Edward Jones Dome has two of these club sections each located on an end of the stadium.

[Racer26]

I was asked why I think CMP needs to be bigger than 400 teams by several people above.

Lets look at a comparison of the last few years.

2013: 2524 Total Teams, 400 Teams at CMP, 15.8%
2012: 2339 Total Teams, 400 Teams at CMP, 17.1%
2011: 2065 Total Teams, 352 Teams at CMP, 17.0%
2010: 1808 Total Teams, 344 Teams at CMP, 19.0%
2009: 1677 Total Teams, 348 Teams at CMP, 20.7%
2008: 1501 Total Teams, 340 Teams at CMP, 22.6%
2007: 1301 Total Teams, 344 Teams at CMP, 26.4%
2006: 1133 Total Teams, 344 Teams at CMP, 30.4%
2005: 988 Total Teams, 340 Teams at CMP, 34.4%
2004: 927 Total Teams, 292 Teams at CMP, 31.4%
2003: 787 Total Teams, 291 Teams at CMP, 36.9%

As you can see. Teams attending championship as a percentage of all FRC teams has been in steady decline.

2014: 54 Regionals, MICMP awards 27+, MARCMP awards 14+, PNWCMP awards 14+?, NECMP awards 14+?, at least 393 in-season merit based CMP seats, 98.3%+ of all CMP (assuming 400 seat cap)
2013: 58 Regionals, MICMP awards 27, MARCMP awards 14, 389 in-season merit based CMP seats, 97.2% of all CMP
2012: 52 Regionals, MICMP awards 18, MARCMP awards 12, 342 in-season merit based CMP seats, 85.5% of all CMP
2011: 48 Regionals, MICMP awards 18, 306 in-season merit based CMP seats, 86.9% of all CMP
2010: 43 Regionals, MICMP awards 18, 276 in-season merit based CMP seats, 80.2% of all CMP
2009: 40 Regionals, MICMP awards 18, 258 in-season merit based CMP seats, 74.1% of all CMP
2008: 41 Regionals, 246 in-season merit based CMP Seats, 72.3% of all CMP
2007: 37 Regionals, 222 in-season merit based CMP Seats, 64.5% of all CMP
2006: 33 Regionals, 198 in-season merit based CMP Seats, 57.5% of all CMP
2005: 31 Regionals, 186 in-season merit based CMP Seats, 54.7% of all CMP
2004: 26 Regionals, 156 in-season merit based CMP Seats, 53.4% of all CMP
2003: 23 Regionals, 138 in-season merit based CMP Seats, 47.4% of all CMP

CMP has already reached nearly 100% saturation of merit-based teams. Additionally, this doesn't account for the other merit-based qualifiers (Sustaining, HOF, and reigning champions, reigning EI winner)

At this point, you either have to start qualifying fewer teams, which is difficult to do fairly, or make CMP bigger.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by Racer26

...At this point, you either have to start qualifying fewer teams, which is difficult to do fairly, or make CMP bigger.

Fair, scalable Worlds qualifications is one of the main benefits of districts. In fact, it's a key mission of the model, precisely because of the realistic maximum size of Champs. It really shouldn't have to get bigger, nor should it. 400 is a lot of teams--and perhaps more importantly, a lot of volunteers and supporting resources. We've certainly got some growing pains in this era, but the upshot shouldn't require a drastic size increase.

[Libby K]

Originally Posted by Cory

If this argument is centered on VIP seats there are 360* of suites that can be used. No reason the boxes can't be moved to the sidelines, unless FIRST is using one of the special much larger box/club areas in the end zones, which I'm unsure of.

Pat mentioned it, but the VIP area used is a special club/lounge area, with its own seating dropped down in front. That way, VIPs can stay up in the lounge area to watch Einstein (and not take up normal arena seats, which leaves room for the kids). The only VIPs on the floor are those speaking in the ceremonies, and anyone in their party. Most of them are upstairs in that lounge, as there is a reception after Einstein in that space (and there's food. Who wouldn't stay with the food?!) The smaller boxes along the 'long side' of the arena are the tiny private ones - which are reserved for media interviews and meetings, and would not serve the purpose of a VIP lounge well, since each box only fits about 10 people.

In Atlanta, this club area was on the 'long' side - but didn't have enough seating for people to watch matches - in fact, matches were displayed on TVs. As a result, the 'kid-award-recipient' seating was in the regular stands, and all floor seats were for VIPs.

Now in STL ~800 students (2 award-recipient wristbands per team) are in the floor seats, with VIPs up in the club area.

This means that ALL available arena seats are for teams/volunteers to watch the Einstein matches. It's still a crunch, but then again it's very hard to see such a small field from most of the seating -- which is why the matches AND ceremonies are displayed on the divisional field screens. Sitting at either one of the divisions nearby Einstein would work as well. (Yes, I am VERY aware that it's not the same- and that sometimes the sound wasn't working well in the divisions- it's just another thought.)

[Rosiebotboss]

Originally Posted by Racer26

I was asked why I think CMP needs to be bigger than 400 teams by several people above.

CMP has already reached nearly 100% saturation of merit-based teams. Additionally, this doesn't account for the other merit-based qualifiers (Sustaining, HOF, and reigning champions, reigning EI winner)

At this point, you either have to start qualifying fewer teams, which is difficult to do fairly, or make CMP bigger.

Which is why FIRST is moving towards Disricts. In a few years, we may well find ourselves with a Super Regional Model as well. The District Champs would play in a Super Regional, say one in the 4 quadrants of the US, northeast, south east, mid west and west coast for example. Then the teams would qualify for Worlds from the Super Regionals. World Champs would still be 400 teams.

From a venue perspective, where else would be an appropriate venue? What city has a domed stadium with a huge conference center attached with 25,000 hotel rooms within wlaking distance?

[dodar]

Originally Posted by Rosiebotboss

Which is why FIRST is moving towards Disricts. In a few years, we may well find ourselves with a Super Regional Model as well. The District Champs would play in a Super Regional, say one in the 4 quadrants of the US, northeast, south east, mid west and west coast for example. Then the teams would qualify for Worlds from the Super Regionals. World Champs would still be 400 teams.

From a venue perspective, where else would be an appropriate venue? What city has a domed stadium with a huge conference center attached with 25,000 hotel rooms within wlaking distance?

Atlanta.

And the district model being the standard throughout FIRST will be alot longer than a few years. Its gonna take at least a decade for the team density down in the southeast to reach the capacity needed for districts.

[Racer26]

Originally Posted by Siri

Fair, scalable Worlds qualifications is one of the main benefits of districts. In fact, it's a key mission of the model, precisely because of the realistic maximum size of Champs. It really shouldn't have to get bigger, nor should it. 400 is a lot of teams--and perhaps more importantly, a lot of volunteers and supporting resources. We've certainly got some growing pains in this era, but the upshot shouldn't require a drastic size increase.

I agree its one of the primary benefits of the district model: BUT. Until all teams are on the district model, its not fair to them to qualify proportionately fewer than would qualify in a regional model.

One of the main things I don't understand is what the obsession with domed stadiums is. Orange County Convention Center is the worlds largest convention space. You could easily plunk fields with enough temporary seating, and have plenty of room for the pits. As long as the temporary seating is done properly, it wouldn't be a problem.

I believe the growth of the program will continue to accelerate. Currently, MI is qualifying teams at approximately the same rate as an area with 4-1/2 45 team regionals, about 1 team in 7.7.

Ontario in 2013 had 3 regionals and 73 teams, qualifying about 1 team in 4.

MAR qualified about 1 team in 7.8.

It seems to me that FIRST is targeting a rate of about 1 team in 8 for the long-term ratio.

For a 400-team CMP, thats 3200 total teams. On our current growth trajectory, we reach that number by 2016 at the latest.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Racer26

One of the main things I don't understand is what the obsession with domed stadiums is. Orange County Convention Center is the worlds largest convention space. You could easily plunk fields with enough temporary seating, and have plenty of room for the pits. As long as the temporary seating is done properly, it wouldn't be a problem.

The stands for the convention center FRC fields in St. Louis were pretty much as big as would fit, and were slightly too small to handle everyone who wanted to watch. It worked out, barely.

But how much seating is "enough" for Einstein?

[dodar]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

The stands for the convention center FRC fields in St. Louis were pretty much as big as would fit, and were slightly too small to handle everyone who wanted to watch. It worked out, barely.

But how much seating is "enough" for Einstein?

I dont think you understood his post.

[JB987]

Regarding VIP seating...if I remember correctly, haven't a large number of prime regular, bottom (not floor) center section seats been set aside for them each year in addition to the boxes described by Libby? I seem to remember wondering why my team (and others competing on Einstein) were stuffed in sections to the side of center and seeing many empty seats available and teams getting over to Einstein later than other ones eventually being placed in the prime section There were empty seats last 2 years in that section even after moving in late comers. Not really complaining though as we were happy to be closer to the floor than other teams not on Einstein

As far as setting up stands in convention center...it is doable for Divisions (as we have seen in St.Louis) but likely extremely expensive to set up an Einstein arena with 25-30,000 additional seats. We got quotes for $40-60,000 just for 2000 seats at a convention center here in Las Vegas for our regional. Can't imagine the cost (and time) associated with setting up temporary seating for 30,000 just for Einstein.