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#16
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Re: FRC Blogged - 2014 FIRST Championship Eligibility
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IMO, the answer isn't 100%. If it was 100%, then why call it champs? There needs to be a selection process, and getting there needs to feel like an elite accomplishment. It isn't 50%. I would even say that it isn't 25%. How does 15% sound to everyone? |
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#17
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Re: FRC Blogged - 2014 FIRST Championship Eligibility
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)In 2012, 2590 was skipped over in the MAR ranking slot distribution since they won Montreal, 365 was skipped over due to HoF, and I'm pretty sure 222 was skipped over since they were preregistered via waitlist for St. Louis. 25 was also skipped over since they won MAR Champs. However, 341, already prequalified for Champs due to HoF, also won the MAR Championships, and were first in points. While they were skipped over in the distribution of the MAR slots given to the top ranked teams, I believe this wasted away a slot given to a MAR Champs winner. In 2013, 11 was skipped over in MAR ranking slots since they already qualified by winning Palmetto, 1676 was skipped over since they won EI at MAR Champs, and 103 was skipped over due to HoF. 2590, 2729, and 1640 were skipped over since they won MAR Champs. Last edited by Hallry : 07-10-2013 at 16:06. |
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#18
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Re: FRC Blogged - 2014 FIRST Championship Eligibility
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![]() 15% looks good for now, but might be on the high side if FRC grows. My assumptions in this statement are that anything over 400 teams is unreasonable given the logistics demands, and anything under 300 is undesirable as well. |
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#19
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Re: FRC Blogged - 2014 FIRST Championship Eligibility
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#20
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Re: FRC Blogged - 2014 FIRST Championship Eligibility
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The talent depth in the divisions is not there. The upper back half of the draft already starts to see a massive drop in performance. I don't want to have to pick (or be picked as) another barely functional robot. There are always exceptions and outliers (read, the successful alliances) but for the most part the third robots are low enough. |
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#21
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Re: FRC Blogged - 2014 FIRST Championship Eligibility
I'm with Glenn and Aaron regarding selection of 4th bot for Division/Einstein elimination alliance. Only "negative' impact I see is a few minutes added to alliance selection time and a little extra cost for extra trophies/banners. There were at least 8 more good robots available at Archimedes last year.
Last edited by JB987 : 07-10-2013 at 16:44. |
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#22
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Re: FRC Blogged - 2014 FIRST Championship Eligibility
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#23
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Re: FRC Blogged - 2014 FIRST Championship Eligibility
In terms of everyone picking their own back-up/4th bot, I'm not sold on the idea. It makes for an interesting debate on multiple fronts.
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To me, one of my favorite parts of the elimination tournament is seeing robots suddenly change their strategy to match an opponent. Rather than playing "rock, paper, scissors" with which robots to put into a match, teams would have to adapt strategically (and sometimes mechanically, as you mentioned with mounting blockers) on the fly. I find moments when teams like 469, 973, and 1126 suddenly become shutdown defenders or 217 scrambling to attach pool noodles or 1114 and 294 working together to improve mini-bot launchers as some of the coolest and most memorable moments of elimination tournaments. I love the strategic engineering that occurs when you have to figure out how to make your alliance composed of X, Y, and Z beat an alliance of A, B, and C. Quote:
The biggest appeal of adding teams to the elimination tournament for me would be mitigating the impact of "weak" alliance captains (assuming they were humble enough to bench themselves). We always see a few alliance captains each year who are borderline elimination teams (or sometimes worse), and rather than damning their alliance partners to a quarter-final exit, a back-up bot may increase their odds. |
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#24
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Re: FRC Blogged - 2014 FIRST Championship Eligibility
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Also consider the teams that missed CMP eliminations this year. 4265, 4124, 230, 2145, 399, 125, 2648, 2485, 842, 180, 79, 191, 503, 2439. Almost all of these teams outright won regionals. Surely there's room in the backup round for them. |
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#25
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Re: FRC Blogged - 2014 FIRST Championship Eligibility
I think the capacity is going to get really finicky as early as 2015, but definitely by the last year under the current venue agreement, unless there are sweeping changes to the eligibility for the event (dropping EI, RAS, Wild Cards, or pre-qualified participants) there are size restrictions for regionals, there are caps for number of regionals, or dropping points-based slots for district systems. Following the trends of event increases, team increases, and the average acceptance rate for merit-based slots (I believe 85%), there will be a problem next year, but that's not factoring in fluctuations of merit based slots of groups of regionals transitioning to a district system which can see an increase, decrease, or stagnation of slots held.
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#26
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Re: FRC Blogged - 2014 FIRST Championship Eligibility
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Even combinations of these plans would soon fail as FIRST grows so quickly. I am not proposing a strategy myself, I am simply gathering information and acting as the soothsayer of the impending crisis. |
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#27
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Re: FRC Blogged - 2014 FIRST Championship Eligibility
I definitely agree that 4th picks should happen. Teams that are good enough to be picked as a 4th robot are more deserving of a chance at elims than the team that happened to seed high (since we all know seeding has very little to do with robot performance) and I'm sure that alliances would prefer to choose their own back up robot.
Regarding location and fields, there is more than enough space in the st louis arena for 8 fields (specifically the giant empty space in the middle), the issue is arrangement and volunteers. Twice as many fields translates to nearly twice as many volunteers. The only way to place twice as many fields in the arena is to either arrange them length wise, or put one behind the other. Neither of which is spectator friendly unless you put bleachers in the middle of the stadium facing out. The other issue is scouting. Scouting would become almost completely impossible for most teams as they wouldn't have enough team members to scout 2 fields at once. After thinking it over, I really don't think it it's a good idea to move to 2 fields per division. In terms of exclusivity I don't think there is a percentage of teams that can really be set to attend CMP. The number of teams attending is really limited by the arena capabilities. There should be no more than 100 teams per division to ensure an adequate number of matches (less than 10 matches per team is undesirable), and you can't add divisions in small increments, you essentially need to add teams at a rate of 100 per addition to maintain the current division layout. With how CMP is run right now I can't see there being any more (or much less) than 400 teams without a major overhaul. I think FRC is staying as is for a while but I definitely think the largest improvement we will see is the increasing prevalence of districts as that seems to be the best system to determine CMP eligiblity. Districts can't get here soon enough ![]() |
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#28
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Re: FRC Blogged - 2014 FIRST Championship Eligibility
15% is roughly where we are now.
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#29
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Re: FRC Blogged - 2014 FIRST Championship Eligibility
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11, 1625, 1741, 829, 2252, 1676, and many more were all putting up good numbers. I thought for sure 11 would get picked, since they had such crazy potential. I also thought that some alliance would select 1640, because although their climber wasn't working very well at the end of quals, if they could get it working by elims, they could provide a climb to an alliance sorely lacking one (Like the 118-469-2590 alliance). IRI certainly went way different that how I thought it would in more than one regard (How did 1334 slip to the second round? How did 4265 slip to the third round? I just don't get itttttt) Anyway, it's past midnight and I have school in the morning and this post is barely relevant to the conversation. Good night, Chief Delphi. |
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#30
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Re: FRC Blogged - 2014 FIRST Championship Eligibility
I don't really want to have to make a 32 team pick list, but it would be nice to have a little control over which robot your backup robot would be. What if alliance selections stay as they currently are, but you can pick any non-selected robot you want to be the backup when/if the need arises? I know that our team has run into instances where the available backup robot is somewhat mediocre.
Just a thought. |
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