3d printers and robots

[EricH]

Originally Posted by DampRobot

Isn't circular interpolation via the G03 command actually quite good on most CNC machines, ie better than just linking a bunch of small line segments? Maybe I'm incorrect, but it seems like it would be more effective, accurate, and efficient for a 3D printer to read a G03 command rather than a huge block of G01 X Ys. Perhaps most 3D print controllers aren't advanced enough to do this kind of interpolation though, and need to run through a bunch of segments instead...

I'm not entirely familiar with Gcode, just what I've been able to decipher off one of 330's machines. No G03 that I can recall even on a curved part.

I think it's more that the 3D printers aren't there yet, and as I said, it may be that there isn't quite the demand for it yet, at least at the low end. (A $10K machine is kind of cheap, mind you... compared to some of the six-figure ones out there! Admittedly different processes, but that's a matter for another day.)

[kaliken]

the fact that you are not seeing and G03s makes sense. Its not due to the controller of the printer rather I would excpect that it is due to the file format.

The STL file spec is a faceted model. Thus it doesn't carry b-splines or nurb surfaces. Therefore a circle is really just a n-gon. Which is exactly what you are seeing.

[Calvin Hartley]

I don't know if it matters to anyone, but RadioShack is now selling a 3D printer. http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...uctId=23160006

[yash101]

Originally Posted by Calvin Hartley

I don't know if it matters to anyone, but RadioShack is now selling a 3D printer. http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...uctId=23160006

Dat is Expensive!!! Just get an Up! Mini for a third the price, or upgrade to the MakerBot for $500 more.

[Vupa]

Hi everyone,

I'm currently looking for a well priced 3d printer for the team this year, any suggestions on brand, model or company would be incredibly helpful.

In the past 2013 season we used a Stratasys uPrint SE (not ours) to create belt sprockets, wheel hubs, spacers and mounts. Anything similar to this quality, but at a lower price would be worth suggesting.

We are not intending the printer for extreme precision work, that being said build strength and durability is a must. Solidworks 2013-2014 is the CADing software were using, compatibility would be helpful. Any and all suggestions are welcome.

Thanks!

[techhelpbb]

In response to Vupa's query:

First let's see if anyone has done a head-to-head comparison of something from a Stratasys uPrint and say a Reprap Prusa:

Yeap someone has and that's not lion.

So how's under $800 for your budget?

Second let's compare the build volumes:

  Build volume of uPrint SE:
  203mm x 152mm x 152mm

  Build volume of Prusa I3 as shown here (there are variants): http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:39889
  200mm x 200mm x 200mm

Third with the Prusa you don't get a heated cabinet (most of us can buy a plastic storage box and put the printer in it).

Forth, the lion heads shown at the first link in this post printed *much* faster on the open source software.
(Read the comments at the link.)

[protoserge]

Originally Posted by Vupa

Hi everyone,

I'm currently looking for a well priced 3d printer for the team this year, any suggestions on brand, model or company would be incredibly helpful.

In the past 2013 season we used a Stratasys uPrint SE (not ours) to create belt sprockets, wheel hubs, spacers and mounts. Anything similar to this quality, but at a lower price would be worth suggesting.

We are not intending the printer for extreme precision work, that being said build strength and durability is a must. Solidworks 2013-2014 is the CADing software were using, compatibility would be helpful. Any and all suggestions are welcome.

Thanks!


Also I apologize if there is a post for this already. A link to that would suffice.

This would be my list. Add to that the OpenBeam Kossel Pro (est. March 2014) and the OpenBeam Kossel Mini using the reprap Kossel mini with OpenBeam extrusions and linear recirculating ball rails.

[Bald & Bearded]

There are tons of really good 3D printer models out there for under $1000.
I agree with several of the other posters that the Prusa I3 is currently likely the best value on the Open Source side.


I personally like the kit from MakerFarm: http://www.makerfarm.com/index.php/3...-8-i3-kit.html

Picture attached. For Under $650 (after shipping).

I have been dealing with Colin there for over a year and his product is quality and the service is good. I buy the kits for the 3D Printer camp I teach from him for just these reasons.

If folks in the Greater Metro-DC area I am doing session at the DC FRC workshops on 3D Printing where I will be covering a lot of these type questions.

I am also doing another printer build camp on Dec 16-20 in Mclean, Va. PM me or email 3dprinting@usstem.org for more details.

[Vupa]

Thanks for all the great suggestions guys! I have been looking at all the options ya'll have supplied and am still deciding. Great news though, my budget bracket has now been upped to around the $2500.00 thus the range of 3d printers the team can afford is now slightly higher.

I started a little bit of my own research and came up with two possible, albeit poorly informed results. The TAZ 3d printer by LulzBot and the Replicator 2 by Makerbot. If anyone has more information on these models and whether or not they're worth their price please inform me. Also more suggestions are absolutely welcome.

Thanks!

[protoserge]

Originally Posted by Vupa

Thanks for all the great suggestions guys! I have been looking at all the options ya'll have supplied and am still deciding. Great news though, my budget bracket has now been upped to around the $2500.00 thus the range of 3d printers the team can afford is now slightly higher.

I started a little bit of my own research and came up with two possible, albeit poorly informed results. The TAZ 3d printer by LulzBot and the Replicator 2 by Makerbot. If anyone has more information on these models and whether or not they're worth their price please inform me. Also more suggestions are absolutely welcome.

Thanks!

I would say that you can spend $1600 on a great pre-assembled printer (that just works) like the Up! Plus 2 (with auto bed leveling probe) and buy or build a second printer with the additional $900. Having two printers is better than one very expensive printer for a number of reasons, including: print speed, production capacity, and reliability/redundancy.

I am a fan of the Open Source Hardware projects, as the support is plentiful on the web and the systems can be modified/repaired with ease. The Prusa is a great printer and is available in several derivations. Also look at the Mendel series. You can get a kit and assemble it or use the RepRap wiki parts lists and accumulate the parts piecemeal.

Is filament covered in the $2500 budget? I'd expect to budget $300 a year on filament, including PLA/ABS and a variety of exotics (Nylon, Polycarbonate, High Impact Polystyrene, Carbon Fiber PLA etc.). Do you have access to an oven? Some filaments have short shelf lives once opened before they need to be baked for several hours to remove absorbed water.

[techhelpbb]

What Stinglikeabee said plus:

Please be aware that the MakerBot Replicator 2 prints PLA. MakerBot's PLA. Not ABS. Do not extrude anything else unless you want to deal with the MakerCare support issue your group is opening the door to. MakerCare is not a warranty. It's parts replacement agreement you can only use once you precisely follow the directions MakerBot provides you. Those directions can take many hours to follow and there are no estimates for the durations of any of the repairs.

The extruder assembly is several hundred dollars on the Replicator 2.
It's very possible for other extruders to be half that cost.
If the extruder does not work you are not printing anything.
So if you really have issues with the MakerBot extruder expect to potentially be looking at $500 to entirely replace it.
The hot-end alone is around $200.

I can not recommend altering the extruder on the MakerBot because again you'll pretty much be throwing away your MakerCare and MakerCare alone costs $500. For that $500 you could build an entire printer. So if you have a MakerBot if you really want to use other materials then you should build another printer. Don't spoil the pot or else that printer you probably stretched to afford might just get even more expensive.

Keep in mind that this technology is quickly evolving. There are 4 extruder printer designs out there. There are filament mixing systems that can use a single extruder and hot-end with multiple filaments. Committing to whatever today's technology is might impact funding future opportunities for the next generation of printers which will come.

PLA is rigid but more brittle unlike ABS which is more flexible and for FRC part purposes ABS is more likely to survive bending without cracking on a wearable component (it wouldn't matter on say a decorative cover). Since there is a tolerance at work here you'd be better off with ABS flexing than PLA cracking unless you can glue the resulting damage easy enough.
Be aware that PLA better holds the dimensions of the print but if you are planning on acetone washing or sanding the part that's not relevant anyway (measure twice cut once).

There are lots of other filament materials for the RepRap style extruders. MakerBot sells lots of PLA filament colors.

Please keep in mind: generally 3D printing ABS/PLA is slow. Team 11 just printed a smartphone shaped item laying flat on the bed of their Replicator 2X. It is merely 3/8" tall and it took 2+ hours between setup, printing and cleanup. Going to make wheel hubs at 1" thick laying flat on the bed? The wheel hubs probably take up more surface area on the printer bed and are taller that that smartphone print. Consider the time involved and that it is probably not wise to leave a heated printer unattended. Going to move the printer if you run out of time? Then you need to consider that you are interrupting the print and risking the print quality plus if you move the printer you need to level it again. I know that if I need to print anything large I sleep next to the printer in a ventilated area with fire alarms and my phone alarm to wake me up every once in a while.

With delays like this owning a single printer might be someone's undoing.
I personally own a SoliDoodle 3 (RepRap style printer) and an Up! printer.
I use the SoliDoodle 3 (which I heavily modified) for most things.
I reserve the Up! for sensitive things or overflow production capacity.
I have parts for at least 7 Prusa printers laying about.

I support the idea that this technology should teach a person to fish. Not give them a fish.
I would rather my students learn to build a cheaper printer they can keep at home and use on their schedule:
than create consumers that know little about their printer than if I click >this< button it 'usually' works.
The promise of the RepRap project is a printer in every home for anyone that wants it.

To extend my last point: what impacts students more? A laptop they can do as they please with or a desktop at the school everyone is afraid they might break and there are 100 students in line to touch? This is about creativity and access to enable that creativity.

[ebmonon36]

I think stinglikeabee and techhelpbb have covered what you need to look for.
As they said, this is a quickly evolving technology. I got my printer 7 months ago. Since then, I can think of at least 6 different materials that have been released. I knew I didn't want to lock myself into a single material. I wanted something that gave me options. There have also been many printers released since I received mine.

I have been running a Makergear M2 since last April and it has done very well for me. I purchased the kit version ($1475.00) and it was very easy to assemble. I had it up and running in about 6 hours. The hardware itself is very robust. Linear slides on the X and Y axis and a lead screw with guides on the Z axis. My only complaint so far is that the Z axis end stop is tricky to adjust. Once it was set, I haven't had a problem with it.

The hot-end is rated for temperatures up to 230 degrees C so it can print PLA and ABS and uses the same mount that many RepRaps use so it is possible to use third party hot-ends. I have purchased an all-metal hot-end from E3D which will allow me to print nylon, polycarbonate, and many other exotic materials (with proper ventilation). Makergear is also in the process of developing their own all-metal hot-end and dual extruders.

Support through email and the Makergear Google group seems to be very prompt, although I have not needed it yet. Their website can be lacking at times.

On the software side, I use Simplify3D to do the slicing of the .STL files (exported from Inventor) and generate the gcode. It also works with the open source software packages such as slic3r and pronterface. While there are default settings for the slicing, it is worth it to tweak them to see what each setting does. Some settings need to be adjusted depending on what you are printing.

[Bald & Bearded]

Originally Posted by stinglikeabee

I would say that you can spend $1600 on a

Is filament covered in the $2500 budget? I'd expect to budget $300 a year on filament, including PLA/ABS and a variety of exotics (Nylon, Polycarbonate, High Impact Polystyrene, Carbon Fiber PLA etc.). Do you have access to an oven? Some filaments have short shelf lives once opened before they need to be baked for several hours to remove absorbed water.

First concur that multiple printers is a really good thing. Some prints can take hours.

On filament, PLA is likely too brittle for many robot applications.
ABS is most common.

If you are doing exotics you will really need an all metal hotend to get the temps you need. Check out the new exotic filaments project that is on Kickstarter.

[protoserge]

I am cross-posting this on a couple threads for maximum visibility. Hopefully, someone needs a printer and at less-than-regular price!

11 AM Eastern tomorrow, Amazon.com will be selling this printer (Up! Plus 2) at a discount. It is presently listed at $1612, and I've seen it as low as $1599 regularly.

[protoserge]

It is $1290!