Why can there be adult coaches on the drive team?

[adlasa]

I am the student coach for our drive team and have always wondered why adults are also allowed to fill the position.

In my opinion when an adult is on the drive team he or she is taking away from a student's opportunity to have a tremendously fun and rewarding experience.

Also, during strategy meetings with alliance members I see students routinely yield to the adult and not participate as actively in the conversation. The adult often seem to dominate the discussion because they are an authority figure.

What is the reasoning behind allowing adults to be coaches?

[pfreivald]

Originally Posted by adlasa

What is the reasoning behind allowing adults to be coaches?

Because FIRST is about collaboration between students and adults.

We almost always have student drive coaches on our team, but have no issue with teams that have adult drive coaches.

My suggestion is to do what works for your team, whatever you're trying to get out of it, and don't worry so much about what other teams are doing.

[Justin Montois]

This topic has already been discussed at length....

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=105371

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=93881

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=77390

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=91144

[Lil' Lavery]

Here are some prior discussions on this topic.

From 2012: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=105371
From 2011: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=93881
From 2009: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=77390
From 2008: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=67426
From 2006: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=45367

Probably many more that I'm missing.

I'm not saying this is a topic that's not worthy of bringing up again. Plenty of opinions change over time. But it's probably worth getting some of the wisdom of these past posts.


e; Beaten to it while searching, heh.

[MechEng83]

Relevant link from the FRC blog: http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...-field-coaches

[nuggetsyl]

OMG this topic again. Those who stir the pot should lick the spoon.

[adlasa]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Here are some prior discussions on this topic.

From 2012: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=105371
From 2011: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=93881
From 2009: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=77390
From 2008: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=67426
From 2006: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=45367

Thank you for the links of the previous discussion, I should have done a better job searching for those.

Their are clearly some merits to having adults on the drive team and also downsides, there will probably never be a right answer.

But, one interesting argument I saw was: If adults can be coaches why cant they also drive the robot? Can anyone expand on that question?

[LeelandS]

Okay, guys. I know the Chief Delphi reflex is to dog pile on the person who starts the thread. Here's the thing: Most of these threads turn in to heated wars about whether or not mentor coaches should be allowed. I think this is a genuine question as to why? Personally, I think a mentor or student coach fits fine into the scope of FIRST.

If it's a student; well, FIRST is about the students. Students taking control and driving their own future. So yes, a student coach fits perfectly for FIRST. The students drive, the students strategize, the students compete.

Conversely, a mentor coach is a good fit as well. Because, yes, FIRST is about the students driving their own future; though they are under the direction of professional, experienced mentors. A drive team with a mentor coach has the student driving, competing, being part of the action, while the mentor (who is absolutely forbidden from touching controls) is hanging back, supervising, providing insight and instruction.

As to why adults can't drive, well, I don't feel like that is a good fit in FIRST. As I've said and we should all know, FIRST is an organization centered around students. It doesn't seem right then for adults to take control of the teams creation if we're trying to develop and inspire students.

[wilsonmw04]

Originally Posted by adlasa

If adults can be coaches why cant they also drive the robot? Can anyone expand on that question?

Because that would blur an already hazy line of what is the student's role and what is the mentor's role. IMHO, the mentor should be there to guide the student and not do it for them. The way each team inspires is entirely up to them. The role of driver is the only limitation that FIRST gives to a team about who does what. I think it should stay that way to allow each team the flexibility they need.

If you want a student only activity, there are many STEM programs that do that. None as well as FIRST does in my estimation.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by LeelandS

If it's a student; well, FIRST is about the students.

Nope. FIRST is about culture change. It's about changing perceptions that STEM isn't "hip". It's not about education or students exactly. It's about showing them that STEM is as cool as playing in the NFL.

[EricDrost]

Originally Posted by adlasa

If adults can be coaches why cant they also drive the robot?

Why can't adults play high school sports?

The drivers/human players are equivalent to athletes and the coach is there to give them guidance. Would you say that since a high school football team is for high school students, they shouldn't have an adult be making plays for them?

11 uses student coaches because that is our preference, but we recognize that as long as a team's goal is roughly in the neighborhood of inspiring students/teaching engineering, it's up to them to decide how they want to achieve those goals.

[artdutra04]

Originally Posted by adlasa

But, one interesting argument I saw was: If adults can be coaches why cant they also drive the robot? Can anyone expand on that question?

Think about the role of coaches in typical sports, whether its football, baseball, basketball, an Olympic sports team, etc.

Who are they? What role do they fulfill? What roles don't they fulfill? What do they bring to the position that makes them beneficial to the team? Why not have one of the current players be the coach?

[LeelandS]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

Nope. FIRST is about culture change. It's about changing perceptions that STEM isn't "hip". It's not about education or students exactly. It's about showing them that STEM is as cool as playing in the NFL.

Not trying to start an argument or nitpick semantics here... But what exactly would the point of such a culture change be if not for students? The culture change is to encourage the next generation to pick up STEM. The next generation is the current students. If FIRST is about the culture change...

[delsaner]

Reasoning seems to change between different teams, depending on how education is passed down from mentors to students.

I know teams that have adults be the drive coach, so the students who are on the drive team are directly working with their mentors on the field.

I know teams (when I was on the drive team for my team) who have a student be the drive coach. After the match, the drive team sit down with the adults and discuss how the match went, pros/cons, etc.

Both of the reasons stated above have their benefits and their downfalls, it is just a matter of opinion. I am personally a fan of having a student be the drive coach for a few reasons.
1) It gives students an excellent opportunity to be on the field.
2) Important and on-the-spot decision making is a very handy ability to learn.
3) Adults can still be a part of the drive team, you just meet for 10 minutes outside the pits and discuss.

Once again, I would say it is up to how the team runs at competition. If you think an adult drive coach is a better way to teach students, go for it. If you think a student drive coach is better, go for it.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by LeelandS

Not trying to start an argument or nitpick semantics here... But what exactly would the point of such a culture change be if not for students? The culture change is to encourage the next generation to pick up STEM. The next generation is the current students. If FIRST is about the culture change...

Ah, I started out nitpicking. Your assertion that students need to be a focus is accurate. I'm merely asserting that they aren't THE focus implication being that there are other things that also must be focused on as well if we are to attain our goals.