FIRST Choice 3D Printer Lottery

[orangemoore]

Originally Posted by yash101

I am not meaning to offend anyone, but I really think this is just an advertisement. There is a mere less than ten (10) percent rate if everyone goes for it. You will lost your credits if you do not get the 3D printer (I think)! Just go and buy a makerbot yourself, if you are so interested!

You get all the credits back if you do not get a 3D printer. The only problem is you miss the beginning of First Choice. When looking through the parts available and credit amounts it seems that a credit is worth about 1 per. I think you would be saving money if you got the 3D printer and not the parts.

[yash101]

Cool. My bad! Let me edit my last post to prevent confusion!

[Pault]

Originally Posted by orangemoore

You get all the credits back if you do not get a 3D printer. The only problem is you miss the beginning of First Choice. When looking through the parts available and credit amounts it seems that a credit is worth about 1 per. I think you would be saving money if you got the 3D printer and not the parts.

Yes, but its about more than just how much an item costs. If there is other stuff on there that you would have needed to buy anyways, and that stuff is more valuable to your team than a 3D printer, then (EDIT: don't) get the 3D printer. My team still has 9 crappy graphics cards laying around in our shop because "the only good stuff left wasn't worth the credits."

[IndySam]

Originally Posted by Pault

Yes, but its about more than just how much an item costs. If there is other stuff on there that you would have needed to buy anyways, and that stuff is more valuable to your team than a 3D printer, then get the 3D printer. My team still has 9 crappy graphics cards laying around in our shop because "the only good stuff left wasn't worth the credits."

You want to ship a couple of those "crappy cards" to me and I'll put them to good use.

[Jim Wilks]

Originally Posted by Pault

If there is other stuff on there that you would have needed to buy anyways, and that stuff is more valuable to your team than a 3D printer, then get the 3D printer.

I'm not sure I'm following the logic of this.

[Pault]

Originally Posted by Jim Wilks

I'm not sure I'm following the logic of this.

What I'm saying is that just because a 3D printer is worth a lot of money, doesn't mean that it is worth anything to your team. If it is going just sit in a corner, occasionally being used to print a prototype (or even worse, sitting there because nobody bothered to learn how to use it), then why on earth wouldn't you just get a couple of talons, a CRIO chassis, some game pieces, etc. instead.

EDIT: and the other part is that you are going to have to buy stuff like talons and batteries anyways, but you probably don't plan on buying a 3D printer anytime soon.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Pault

What I'm saying is that just because a 3D printer is worth a lot of money, doesn't mean that it is worth anything to your team. If it is going just sit in a corner, occasionally being used to print a prototype (or even worse, sitting there because nobody bothered to learn how to use it), then why on earth wouldn't you just get a couple of talons, a CRIO chassis, some game pieces, etc. instead.

EDIT: and the other part is that you are going to have to buy stuff like talons and batteries anyways, but you probably don't plan on buying a 3D printer anytime soon.

I think you left the word "don't" out of your first post. Great way to confuse folks.

I agree, though. Now, I will point out that 3D printers can be very useful--for the right purposes. OTOH, you do have to know how to use them, which knowledge isn't something that every team has. (Though the ones that do have it tend to happily share that knowledge.)

[Bald & Bearded]

I have to agree with EricH on the learning part. I have been 3D printing for well over a year now and am still learning tricks and better ways to do thing. I have boxes of failed prints for all that effort.

Also, don't forget the cost of supplies. Good quality filament cost about $30 or more for a 1KG spool (and trust me you want to pay for quality). Add to
that painters tape, kapton tape, or other adhesives for your print bed.

[dtengineering]

I have a print running in the basement on a Solidoodle 3 right now. It has been a year since I first got my hands on a Solidoodle 2 and, as mentioned above... I'm still learning.

The idea that a 3D printer is some kind of miracle machine where you just push a button and whatever you can imagine miraculously appears has been somewhat overhyped in the media.

They are cool, they are useful, but there are limitiations, both to what you can print and to the reliability of the machine... well, to be fair, it hasn't been the machine itself so much as operator error and perhaps some 'dirty' PLA filament that caused intermittent clogging of one of my print nozzles. That happened just about the time I was getting the printer figured out, and the day before a group of middle school kids was coming for a visit to see it working. (Thankfully I had a glow-in-the-dark Yoda printed in advance as a souvenir... the machine was 'down' when they visited.)

So definitely consider getting the printer if 3D printing is a field that both mentors and students want to explore... but expect to spend a fair bit of time getting it set up and working and learning its limitations... and its abilities. If you are getting your first 3D printer as part of this year's KoP, you may find it more useful for next years' build season rather than this year's. In fact, this year it may serve more as a distraction than an asset...

Most of today's low-end 3D printers are a lot like the Model T Ford. They can get you where you are going, but you'll have to learn to drive and you might have to turn a few wrenches along the way. Twenty years from now, I expect, we'll be looking back and laughing at how primitive they really were!

Jason

[Bald & Bearded]

Originally Posted by dtengineering

The idea that a 3D printer is some kind of miracle machine where you just push a button and whatever you can imagine miraculously appears has been somewhat overhyped in the media.


So definitely consider getting the printer if 3D printing is a field that both mentors and students want to explore... but expect to spend a fair bit of time getting it set up and working and learning its limitations... and its abilities. If you are getting your first 3D printer as part of this year's KoP, you may find it more useful for next years' build season rather than this year's. In fact, this year it may serve more as a distraction than an asset...

+1000 on what Jason said here.

I would not expect to get a 3D printer figured out and working in the limited build season. Too much going on and too much at risk.

My recommendation is that teams look at 3d printing as a set of off-season projects when you have time and less pressure to get things figured out.

[techhelpbb]

I agree with the above 3 posters. Know and understand the technology to apply it correctly. Set the expectations appropriately. Understand the costs.

I own several printers and have been working with 3D printing for over 10 years (some of the printers I have access to are very expensive): I understand the value of the hype to the industry but the risk of the hype is confusion, dissatisfaction and fear (in the case of 3D printed weapons) that gets created by the hype.

No one should expect that you'll dump a quarter in a 3D printer at the supermarket and get a working firearm or robot printed on the spot. It does not work like that. It's slow. It requires finesse. It requires commitment. Like all newer technology it is quickly evolving. The cost of the printers is not always proportional to the value of the printer for a specific purpose.

I think it is fantastic when FIRST teams use this technology. However I can certainly understand when a FIRST team decides this technology is not necessary for them at this time. Those decisions are as unique as the teams themselves.

I speak only for myself when I say that I actually hope that at no point in the future does this technology merely come down to 'press this button', 'don't ask questions about what is going on in there' or branding. This runs contrary, in my view, to the spirit of the intentions of the people that developed this technology. There is a place for that but once that ball rolls too far it's difficult to pull back from merely consuming because the vital skills and information are lost to a lack of necessity.

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk." Thomas A. Edison

[Andy A.]

Originally Posted by dtengineering

Twenty years from now, I expect, we'll be looking back and laughing at how primitive they really were! Jason

This comment made me think about my first 2d printer; a NEC dot matrix from sometime in the early 90's. Yeah, it worked, but it was expensive, slow, loud, jammed if you looked at it funny and really could only print numbers and letters onto very specific paper. I do miss tearing off those perforated edges, though. That really was satisfying.

I imagine that todays 'bench top' 3d printers are at about the same point in technological development as that pinwriter. If that holds true then twenty years from now you'll be able to buy a 3d printer in Walmart for $30.

It also means that the material refill cartridges will cost $45 .

[Rohawk1]

Originally Posted by EricH

I think you left the word "don't" out of your first post. Great way to confuse folks.

I agree, though. Now, I will point out that 3D printers can be very useful--for the right purposes. OTOH, you do have to know how to use them, which knowledge isn't something that every team has. (Though the ones that do have it tend to happily share that knowledge.)

Hi! I'm from FIRST team 3824, and we have been working with Oak Ridge National Laboratory for the past four years. Two years ago, we had the very first all-printed robot. Last year, we had a printed robot with carbon fiber. We definitely have benifitted from the use of 3D printing, and we are partnering with 3D Systems on the development of a new website for FIRST. It will have the ability to upload and download parts designed specifically for the kit of parts. This will enable us to help new teams take advantage of the technology and also share models.

Another use of these printers is fundraising. You can make and sell trinkets, keychains, cell phone covers, etc. to make money for your team. I believe this will be the most useful tool your team will ever have. You can make customized cell phone covers for a few dollars and sell them for $20 to $30! Last year we helped make Frisbees to give out at Nationals and the Smoky Mountain Regional (SMR). I'll start uploading pictures to get teams thinking.