FRC Blog -2014 Administrative Manual Sections 1-5 and Something New

[dag0620]

Frank Blogged:

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...-Something-New

Sections 1 through 5 of the 2014 Administrative Manual have been posted. Section 6, Awards, is still in work but will be posted shortly.

You can find these sections here: http://frc-manual.usfirst.org/

Something New – Robot Displays

I’ll admit the FRC Administrative Manual isn’t much of a page-turner, but it’s packed with information you need to know, along with many helpful tips. Even if you’re a veteran team with many years under your belt, you should read it through completely.

This year, it includes a new section on Robot Displays, Section 5.4.3. To help with marketing and community outreach, teams will be able to show off their robot for short periods, out of the bag, after Stop Build Day. No work or practice may be done during these show times. You should read the rest of the rules in this section for yourself, I don’t want to spoil the ending.* We had occasionally granted these requests on a team-by-team basis over the last few years, it just made sense for us to include this in the manual and give the option broadly to all teams. Just make sure to follow those rules!

Hope all of you who are celebrating holidays this week have wonderful ones!

Frank

*SPOILER ALERT. If you can’t wait, I’ll tell you the end. Tom Baker makes an appearance as the museum curator.

I'm excited that teams now have the options to take robots out of the bag for demonstration purposes.

[wilsonmw04]

Time to pull our GP out of these "Robot Displays."

What constitutes "practice?"
What if something broke on the robot that was working fine when it came out of the bag? Could we fix it then?

I just see a whole host of ways to abuse this. I hope those who use this clause will not only follow the letter of the rule, but the spirit of it as well.

[jlmcmchl]

There is no instance of the term "Tom Baker" in the administrative manual. He came in as the museum curator at the end of the 50th Anniversary Dr. Who special.

Back Story, he was the 4th Doctor from Dr. Who.

Game hint anyone?

...I'll let this blow up somewhere before I post more of my thoughts.

[magnets]

Originally Posted by jlmcmchl

There is no instance of the term "Tom Baker" in the administrative manual. He came in as the museum curator at the end of the 50th Anniversary Dr. Who special.

Back Story, he was the 4th Doctor from Dr. Who.

Game hint anyone?

...I'll let this blow up somewhere before I post more of my thoughts.

Dr. Who (I think relates to time travel), just like the incorrect date....
Does the game have to do with time?

Also, I'm a little confused with the access period too. From my reading, it looks like there's no mention of the withholding allowance, so is there a rule that we can open the bag, take the old robot out, and put a new one in, or taking out the old robot, removing 95% of the stuff on it, and replacing it with new stuff? Or will a later rule clarify that we can only change 30 lbs of robot?

[AGPapa]

Originally Posted by dag0620

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I'm excited that teams now have the options to take robots out of the bag for demonstration purposes.

Teams already had that option, now it's just more formalized.
In MAR the process involved contacting Ed Petrillo and asking permission.
We did it in 2012 and 1143 did it last year.

It's better to have it in the rule book like this so more teams know that it's available. It also seems like you don't need permission this year, which makes it somewhat easier.

[Nathan Streeter]

So, as a team that'll be competing under the District System for the first time...

What does your team usually do during the "Robot Access Periods?"

How do the rules for a "withholding allowance" relate to the rules for the "Robot Access Periods?" (i.e. Can you choose if you use your witholding allowance at the event or in one of your robot access periods?)

Do you build a practice robot anyway?

[coalhot]

I like this addition. It allows us to show our robot off to companies and sponsors more closely to the time when we're demanding money and services from them. It allows us to demonstrate the sponsorship -> robot -> competition process.

I dislike the debate that's attached with this rule change. Hopefully FIRST clarifies in greater depth what "demonstration" is, so we don't have to suffer through another 1,000+ post thread. (cue 1,000+ post thread)

[AGPapa]

Originally Posted by Nathan Streeter

So, as a team that'll be competing under the District System for the first time...

What does your team usually do during the "Robot Access Periods?"

How do the rules for a "withholding allowance" relate to the rules for the "Robot Access Periods?" (i.e. Can you choose if you use your witholding allowance at the event or in one of your robot access periods?)

Do you build a practice robot anyway?

This is a worthwhile discussion, but I don't think it belongs in this thread.

These "Robot Displays" are not like "Robot Access Periods". No work is done on the robot and no drivers practice during one of these displays. They are completely different.

Originally Posted by wilsonmw04

Time to pull our GP out of these "Robot Displays."

What constitutes "practice?"
What if something broke on the robot that was working fine when it came out of the bag? Could we fix it then?

I just see a whole host of ways to abuse this. I hope those who use this clause will not only follow the letter of the rule, but the spirit of it as well.

If you were going to cheat, why would you record it on your Robot Lock Up sheet as a "Robot Display"? Wouldn't you just keep it a secret? We already have to deal with teams following the spirit of the rules in the current system. The addition of "Robot Displays" changes nothing.

[Chris is me]

I think people have a pretty narrow view of how cheating works. Very rarely is it a group of people going "yeah, we want an advantage, let's blatantly just break the rules!". It's people bending little things, overlooking small things. "Oh, we don't need to unbolt the CIM from that mechanism to make the withholding allowance, it's pointless if we're just going to put it back on". "You know, we machined these wheels in December, but why waste the time making new ones?" It's small decisions at the fringe of rules rationalized by individuals somehow.

It seems like it would be a lot easier for teams to rationalize giving their arm operator twenty minutes on the sticks at a demo now than before, no? Or giving the programmers time to debug and update the code - "yeah it's technically work but the robot has to look good for this demo, right?"

I'm not overly concerned, but it's more of a possibility now than before.

[BigJ]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

...

It seems like it would be a lot easier for teams to rationalize giving their arm operator twenty minutes on the sticks at a demo now than before, no?

...

Seeing as their example of "not practice" is explicitly stated as having non-drive-team members drive, not really. But yes, I do see what you're saying.

Regarding the clue, I think a more rational guess is some sort of phone-booth-door type mechanism that has to be manipulated on the field.

[Nathan Streeter]

Originally Posted by AGPapa

This is a worthwhile discussion, but I don't think it belongs in this thread.

These "Robot Displays" are not like "Robot Access Periods". No work is done on the robot and no drivers practice during one of these displays. They are completely different.

I understand the distinction between the brand-new "Robot Displays" that apply to all teams, and the "Robot Access Periods" that have existed in Districts since they began... I just wanted to talk about them since they're part of the 2014 Administrative Manual that was just provided. I'll start a new thread, since it probably merits its own anyway...

[mhos1997]

Stop Build Day February 18, 2013
Was it another typo or a game hint?

[SenorZ]

I like the Dr. Who game hint idea... maybe the rules and game strategy will be so convoluted and confusing that we won't figure out what is going on until Championships?!?

As to interpretation of the new rules, they're pretty clear. You can unbag your robot for a short period of time so people can get a good LOOK at it. I like it, but they'll have to include a lot more zip-ties in the KoP.

[dag0620]

Originally Posted by mhos1997

Attachment 15482
Stop Build Day February 18, 2013
Was it another typo or a game hint?

I feel like that is more then likely a typo. They probably just edit the prior years manual and forgot to update it.

[rwkling1]

Originally Posted by mhos1997

Attachment 15482
Stop Build Day February 18, 2013
Was it another typo or a game hint?

Hmm, with all these time typos I feel this is appropriate:
"Tick tock, the map is a clock" haha