Jaguars

[rhp3794]

Hi everybody we are trying to buy new jaguars. but searching in different pages. the jaguars appears that doesn't exist anymore for buying it. searching in vex. and searching in other pages.

Do you know about something?

[Thad House]

http://www.vexrobotics.com/vexpro/mo.../217-3367.html

[MichelB]

Most everyone is switching to Talons. This seems to be the way to go for the upcoming season.

[MechEng83]

Originally Posted by MichelB

Most everyone is switching to Talons. This seems to be the way to go for the upcoming season.

What data do you have to support this claim?

[geomapguy]

Originally Posted by MechEng83

What data do you have to support this claim?

I second this, many teams are still all-victor or all-jaguar.

[brennonbrimhall]

Originally Posted by MechEng83

What data do you have to support this claim?

I personally have no data to back MichelB's claim up, but Talons have been a significantly more pleasant experience to work with than Victors or Jaguars. Not only are they reliable and pretty indestructible, but they have the smallest footprint too. And most of the time, you don't need a fan on them. As a programmer, they feature a more linear response, so I don't have to compensate for that in my code.

It's my opinion that unless I'm using CAN, Talons are the way to go.

That being said, IFI has definitely addressed the community's constructive feedback on its products, but I'm not well-versed in the new(er) Victor 888 or updated Jaguars to comment on this.

[Jacob Bendicksen]

Originally Posted by brennonbrimhall

I personally have no data to back MichelB's claim up, but Talons have been a significantly more pleasant experience to work with than Victors or Jaguars. Not only are they reliable and pretty indestructible, but they have the smallest footprint too. And most of the time, you don't need a fan on them. As a programmer, they feature a more linear response, so I don't have to compensate for that in my code.

Agreed. I don't have any hard evidence to back it up, but they're just nicer to work with. Smaller, lighter, hardier, and unless they're on a drive motor they don't need a fan. They're also close to impossible to smoke with metal shavings unless you're trying.

[MichelB]

Originally Posted by MechEng83

What data do you have to support this claim?

I, personally have not worked with Talons but the concensus seems to be that they are easier to work with and a better piece of hardware overall.

[IndySam]

We will never use a Jaguar again, they just caused way too many problems.

We used a mix of talons and victor 888 last year and were very happy with the performance of both. Unless there are rule changes we will do the same this year.

[MrBasse]

How can everyone claim that Talons are tougher than another speed controller. We have been using the same Victors for four years straight and haven't had a failure yet. Talons have only been around for a year, so time will tell. Jaguars on the other hand...We've cooked 9 of those (one with actual flame coming out of the vents) and avoid them as much as possible unless we run out of Victors. I'm fairly sure that I can get smoke to come out of one just by looking at it, but it might also have something to do with our shop environment...

In my view, availability of the Talon during season has been the biggest issue with it, so we have yet to get to play with one. I'm excited to get one, but we don't have the funds to pick up enough to use without mixing speed controllers.

[MichaelBick]

While we wouldn't use jaguars on the comp bot, I've heard they are really good for protos because of they build in PID and current sensing.

[Anupam Goli]

You can purchase additional jaguars here: http://www.vexrobotics.com/217-3367.html

I always thought the CAN bus capabilities of the jaguar were very interesting and if the hardware was more reliable, I'd use the jaguar more often.

[MechEng83]

We ended up using all 3 controllers at various points on our 2013 robot. (Though only 2 at any one time.)

Jaguars are great because of following reasons (and we utilize each one):

Current sensing
Internal PID control
Forward/Reverse Limit Switches
CAN

Jaguars have the following drawbacks (each of which we've experienced):
Relatively low current limits (Though it seems to have been raised with the latest firmware update)
Poor CAN (physical) connection robustness
Highly sensitive to swarf (metal debris) -- though the new ones have a conformal coating.

[brennonbrimhall]

Originally Posted by MrBasse

How can everyone claim that Talons are tougher than another speed controller. We have been using the same Victors for four years straight and haven't had a failure yet. Talons have only been around for a year, so time will tell.

That's great if your Victors have lasted that long -- we just haven't had that experience, especially with Jaguars.

I don't know if 'tougher' is the better term, as much as I think that Talons are the better product. Let me explain:

When we made the switch to Talons, it combined the linearity of the Jaguar with the durability of a Victor (pre-Victor 888) plus metal shaving resistance. We've found that CTRE's attention to minor details really help set Talons apart: the PWM connection to the Talon is more secure than either Victors or Jaguars, the small footprint is helpful when squeezing electronics onto the chassis, the 4% deadband saves headaches from old joysticks, and the Smart LED helps debugging code.

[Pault]

Originally Posted by MechEng83

Jaguars have the following drawbacks (each of which we've experienced):
Relatively low current limits (Though it seems to have been raised with the latest firmware update)
Poor CAN (physical) connection robustness
Highly sensitive to swarf (metal debris) -- though the new ones have a conformal coating.

Don't forget about a giant footprint.

And all those extra features can be a disadvantage too, because you now have the temptation to use them when often you would be better off without them.

In 2012 (rookie year) my team used Jaguars with CAN. I will just say that even the word CAN now instills fear into the hearts of our veteran students. In 2013 we wanted to use Talons, but the sold out, so instead we used Victor 888s, and had no complaints. This year we have bought 4 talons to put on the electronics test bed we are building, and if they really are as good as everyone says they are we will put them on our 2014 robot.