Robot in 3 Days : Feedback

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto

If you don't like it, don't look at it. Tell your kids not to go on CD for 2 weeks. RI3D aren't the only people posting prototype videos. Did you see the google search trends for "frisbee shooter video" right after kickoff? People want this information, and they're smart to go find it. Maybe you should take a closer look at your design process instead?

I go to CD during build to ask questions, answer questions, and skim the best ideas from the CD community. RI3D helps me do that, and is another reason why I am invested in this community.

Steal from the best, invent the rest.

-Mike

Like I said in my previous post, and as you mentioned, teams should discuss how they want to utilize outside information on their own.

[Michael Corsetto]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

Like I said in my previous post, and as you mentioned, teams should discuss how they want to utilize outside information on their own.

Agreed! However, your post (before you editted it) clearly mentioned being in favor of a delayed RI3D release. I am of the persuasion that if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

-Mike

EDIT: Keep doing what you're doing RI3D! One suggestion, maybe use the kit-bot DT this year? Might encourage more teams, especially veterans, to consider using the kit-bot rather than building their own failing DT.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto

Agreed! However, your post (before you editted it) clearly mentioned being in favor of a delayed RI3D release. I am of the persuasion that if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

-Mike

EDIT: Keep doing what you're doing RI3D! One suggestion, maybe use the kit-bot DT this year? Might encourage more teams, especially veterans, to consider using the kit-bot rather than building their own failing DT.

I was trying to show I understood where Sean's opinion was coming from, and stated that releasing the videos on Wednesday wouldn't be such a bad idea. I was agreeing that tunnel vision from these videos can be a problem, but realized after your post that it is no different from what happens from any other prototyping video on youtube, CD, etc. As you said very bluntly, the information should be out there just like other team videos are, and each team should decide on it's own how to deal with it.

Edit - I do like Michael's idea of using the Kitbot on Steroids, but it is understandable if you guys would prefer using IR3 Creative products to make a drivetrain instead. Using a Kitbot would also require purchasing one beforehand, but since the new Kitbot from AndyMark won't be available until after Kickoff, that won't be an option.

[Gary Dillard]

Can you build it during the 3 days before kickoff this year?

[techhelpbb]

The upside of the RI3D build is that you can get a feel for any surprises with the game components without having to expend that energy yourself.

I can certainly see how teams might not have tunnel vision as much as limited resources to mess around and find their own way.

There's a saying among hackers: code wins arguments

If your team is hyper-focusing on the RI3D design then your team should take a good review of how that happens internally. There are many reasons why any team will just accept a solution. This is not to say that the RI3D design is flawed in any way but part of being an engineer is to be able to speak up against detractors and also to be able to accept that there may be problems with what you advocate as well. How one does that is often an art and a significant effort. Wrap that up in some politics and sometimes the best idea is just not the one everyone agrees on. Whatever the reason for the design choices one should not hold accountable the people that give their ideas away for basically free. The right way to work out a design is not by censoring potentially valuable information from the design process. That's a political fix that covers a fault somewhere in the process.

[Oblarg]

Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto

Steal from the best, invent the rest.

This is a very wise design philosophy.

Tunnel vision is bad, sure. Reinventing the wheel is worse.

[Ryan Dognaux]

I think Ri3D was the biggest factor in raising last season's competitiveness among all teams. I would say don't change a thing, unless you want to put out even more awesome video updates.

It'd be great to see more teams being as open about their build season as Ri3D is. Just think how much everyone could learn if there were hundreds of open build seasons being documented even half as well as Ri3D's is documented.

[Navid Shafa]

Originally Posted by Tom Line

Andrew, I attribute the extremely high level of play we saw out of rookies in 2013 directly to your efforts. We saw robots using your concepts at every regional we attended.

I definitely think it's a useful tool for raising the overall level of competition. It hopefully helps rookie teams identify simple and effective systems that allow them to play the game at a competitive level.

I also think it's an extremely helpful tool for Veterans. It's being produced at a critical time when many teams are still going over rules, discussing strategy and identifying goals. I think seeing refined prototypes and concepts interact with the game pieces is something that everyone can benefit from. Last year, I felt it was really helpful to see how size and storage space would play a factor in the game.

I'll definitely tune in again. My only feedback would be to have an overlay on the stream. Often the view is of people working, without any talking. I understand they are pressed for time, but if somebody tunes in, it would be nice to know what component(s) they are currently working on. Or where they are in the overall process. It wouldn't have to be much, something simple like "Working on Collector Parts" or "Assembling Lifter Assembly".

Thanks for doing what you do!

[Tom Line]

Robot in 3 days provided us a baseline of where everyone would be. It also gave us confidence that when a particular mechanism didn't work, we'd have a fallback that was already proven. You guys were the prototypers for all of FIRST.

I'd like to see you live-stream the whole thing with audio. Most streaming sites allow replays so people could watch the entire thing at their leisure.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by Libby K

FIRST tends not to promote non-official media - if only for the principle of fairness. Why give someone's show a free promotion when there are others? Sadly, it means that some community resources are well-kept secrets.

I think ri3d is a really interesting take on the FIRST challenge. Excited to see all the different media that'll be happening this season. Documenting the build season and design process is starting to catch on, and I'm a big fan.

On the topic of accessing a broader audience, I have no idea what they'd say, but Ri3D might consider reaching out to Andy and Mark. It's still not FIRST-wide, but their mailing list probably spreads past active CD viewers. They sent blasts out this year listing off-season events, so there's some precedent for unofficial promotions. Similarly check in with the Senior Mentor network--they tend to know where the struggling rookies are in their area.

I agree that broader access would be the biggest way to improve impact. Everything else last year was great (not that some suggestions here aren't also good), and I think it really is the biggest widespread competitive boost since the kitbot. Absolutely awesome job guys. You're really doing a huge service to the community.

[cmrnpizzo14]

Could you possibly set up a Vine account for this? I know many tests that we do rarely last 7 seconds. You could post one showing wheels moving, a frisbee being fired, the lift working, etc... It would be a quick and easy way to release information in between the actual video updates that you guys do.

[BBray_T1296]

Originally Posted by Gary Dillard

Can you build it during the 3 days before kickoff this year?

How is that possible?

[yash101]

Originally Posted by BBray_T1296

How is that possible?

Magic is one option
FRC gave them the game early is another option
Typo. That is another option

[colin340]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Don't post anything until week 2. It was really frustrating trying to break the students on my team out of just proposing RI3D variants with regards to shooting a frisbee during brainstorming last year. Sometimes seeing something that works ends up creating tunnel vision during the brainstorming and design processes.

I'm with Lavery on this one, hold off until week 2 so crazy fringe ideas and non-conventional strategies have time to grow legs. it's hard for super unpolished ideas to be debated against polished, proven, videotaped ideas.

RI3D I appreciate the passion you have for pushing first to a higher level I'm just concerned that too much of this in week one will lead to incredibly uniform robots and strategies.

[Invictus3593]

You guys helped out SO many teams this past year, including ours and I look forward to seeing it happen again.

I would definitely like to second the notion(s) of showing more of the design/brainstorming process. I know that when we were rookies, design was something we didn't exactly know how to effectively do and I think watching you guys do it would give other rookies an idea of how it's supposed to go and how to rule out options that would take away from the overall quality of their bot.