Internet at Competitions

[rsegrest]

Originally Posted by TheCascadeKid

What did happen to the guy/what was really happening? The Einstein report was rather vague with that part (perhaps for good reason, but I'm still wondering).

If you read the email that accompanied the Einstien report vague was the last thing it was. Here is the gist of what happened and the results:

What happened:
Random guy found a way to use Wifi to cause interference in robot communication that affected the outcome of Einstien matches

Consequences:
Random guy is in no way allowed any further contact with, interaction with, or participation in FIRST in any capacity. Essentially he is banned from FIRST for life.

Excerpt from the letter from Jon Dudas sent to all teams...

"Additionally, Einstein match play suffered from an intentional act of interference. The person who engaged in this interference was associated with an FRC team, but not with any team on the winning alliance. For personal reasons, this individual opted to resign. In addition, FIRST has prohibited the individual from participating in any future FIRST event as a coach, mentor, volunteer or in any other capacity. This is the penalty associated with an intentional act of interference."

http://www.usfirst.org/node/2426

And this is one of the reasons why Wifi is not allowed at events in any capacity.

To the OP:
I agree with the other posters on most of their points. The volunteers at all events are just that, volunteers. They catch a lot of grief over match play, things not working exactly the way they worked for teams at home, the occasional FRC participant who doesn't want to follow the rules, setup, breakdown, etc. etc.

While the majority of the time their experiences are positive I can tell you that there are individuals who are actively rude and ugly to the volunteers (adults and students alike). I speak from experience because my students have participated as volunteers and I have witnessed some unfortunate incidents.

If you want to do this use your 3/4G devices all day long (we use laptops and USB drives for simplicity) but please do not expect/ask the volunteers for another thing to setup, configure, troubleshoot for every team that is having problems, and then breakdown. Their jobs and time are already busy enough with all the other duties they are asked to perform. If you think you are tired at the end of an event put yourself in their shoes, they are the first in the doors in the morning, the last out the doors at night, and spend several days before teams arrive getting everything ready for us and then cleaning up after we leave.

Thank you to all those who have volunteered at an event, you guys do a great job!

[techhelpbb]

Originally Posted by rsegrest

If you want to do this use your 3/4G devices all day long (we use laptops and USB drives for simplicity) but please do not expect/ask the volunteers for another thing to setup, configure, troubleshoot for every team that is having problems, and then breakdown. Their jobs and time are already busy enough with all the other duties they are asked to perform. If you think you are tired at the end of an event put yourself in their shoes, they are the first in the doors in the morning, the last out the doors at night, and spend several days before teams arrive getting everything ready for us and then cleaning up after we leave.

Thank you to all those who have volunteered at an event, you guys do a great job!

As a guy that's helped set up the fields and the pits I appreciate that.
However I'd like to say that - planned - installation of say a wired network would just be another task and if enabled to do it I would do it.

On the other hand - unplanned - having to chase teams with WiFi that know better around I do not welcome. It invites a confrontation that is just not necessary and being unplanned it is unwelcome.

In point of fact I believe the vast majority of 'confrontations' I've seen are from small but important things that can be addressed and removed with adequate communications. Sure someone might be better or worse off for resolution but no one is better for letting that fester.

Originally Posted by rsegrest

What happened:
Random guy found a way to use Wifi to cause interference in robot communication that affected the outcome of Einstien matches

Not quite what happened.
He found a hole and after they refused to address it he exploited it again.

Finding the problem: not the problem.
Bringing the problem to someone's attention (could have been done in a more polite and responsible manner): sort of a problem.

Opening the door to becoming an interloper on the field < entirely unacceptable.

Once he knew it was a problem and was asked to stop it was time to comply.
So the message here: if they ask you to stop - you stop.

Watch carefully - when Al says don't use hot glue on electronic motor controls I do not.
It does not matter if I agree - do not turn a simple disagreement into a war that has far reaching consequences.
On the other side of that: if someone tells FIRST respectfully there's a problem - they need to listen (usually they do).
FIRST did investigate the problem at great expense so obviously they are listening to this now.

(Keep in mind the goal is to evolve - mistakes happen - let's try to keep the disasters to a minimum.)

[JosephC]

The answer all the questions about getting match data to the drivers in the pits from the stands: The past 2 years at Worlds, where the walk in quite a distance, 68 solved the problem by printing the sheet out in the stands and then taking a picture and emailing it to the drive coach. It's fast, efficient, and doesn't interfere with the fields WiFi. We do our scouting the old pen and paper way, focusing on making our sheets easier to use during the match and easier to enter in the computer rather then wireless communications between the scouters and the computers.

Originally Posted by rsegrest

Thank you to all those who have volunteered at an event, you guys do a great job!

Thank you =] And I pass that message along to all the other FIRST volunteers, keep up the good work!

[BBray_T1296]

What would be the fate of a system using NFC (Near Field Communication) also known as Android Beam (Samsung Beam is even cooler, but other devices are available) available on all newer Android devices running Jellybean (and possibly further back than that). File transfer is orders of magnitude faster than bluetooth but works in nearly the same way. As the name implies it requires proximity to function, but I have been 30+' away from somebody and it still worked.

[rsegrest]

Originally Posted by techhelpbb

Not quite what happened.
He found a hole and after they refused to address it he exploited it again.

Finding the problem: not the problem.
Bringing the problem to someone's attention (could have been done in a more polite and responsible manner): sort of a problem.

Opening the door to becoming an interloper on the field < entirely unacceptable.

Once he knew it was a problem and was asked to stop it was time to comply.
So the message here: if they ask you to stop - you stop.

Watch carefully - when Al says don't use hot glue on electronic motor controls I do not.
It does not matter if I agree - do not turn a simple disagreement into a war that has far reaching consequences.
On the other side of that: if someone tells FIRST respectfully there's a problem - they need to listen (usually they do).
FIRST did investigate the problem at great expense so obviously they are listening to this now.

(Keep in mind the goal is to evolve - mistakes happen - let's try to keep the disasters to a minimum.)

Thank you for the clarification. I was under the impression the individual found the hole and decided to randomly mess with people and was unaware that they had pointed it out to FIRST. And I completely agree with your comments on Al. I have often posted questions to him on Delphi to get a seasoned expert inspectors opinion!

[techhelpbb]

Originally Posted by rsegrest

Thank you for the clarification. I was under the impression the individual found the hole and decided to randomly mess with people and was unaware that they had pointed it out to FIRST. And I completely agree with your comments on Al. I have often posted questions to him on Delphi to get a seasoned expert inspectors opinion!

There are things worth having a heated debate about: things that do great harm to FIRST like interfering with the fields and radios.

There are things not worth having a heated debate about: whether or not hot glue to hold PWM wires is legal. It makes little difference as long as the need to hold the wires is acknowledged and an acceptable alternative is offered.

I often seem to be argumentative when in reality I just want clarity as to avoid further conflict. When a team shows up to events you are not always dealing with the same people. There can be inconsistency introduced and that is confusing and impacts the quality of performance for everyone. In this case Al is a resource that offers consistency because the inspectors generally answer to him as lead inspector. Although Al can't officially dictate rules like the GDC can it makes little sense to document a disagreement with him unless there is a real risk to make it worth it. That said I do want to thank Al for his time because his role is not an easy one.

It is important for FIRST to be consistent on some things. Interfering with the fields is one of them. If you know you can interfere you should not do it without FIRST's consent as a test. The same would be true as a spectator that is not aligned to a team. In this case at least there was something FIRST could extract as a form of punishment. As a spectator I guess the best they can do is take your name, information and toss you out of the venue.

I am not clear if there is an official response to this sort of interference in the future. At the moment it seems to be an optional response. With the field as it is I suspect that eventually FIRST will have to make some decisions about what is the proper response to a problem such as field interference so there is clarity on what is to be done. Otherwise I perceive the potential for conflict that is not managed with the guidance of FIRST from the top, down.