give me advice on our 'BOARD'

[soezgg]

My team has a problem:

There is a board that consists of 3 Parents, 1 college student, 2 highschool students.

The three parents on the team want to make a 'team' decision about how the driver selection process works.

There is nothing majorly wrong with their ideas, but they are not taking into consideration what the students themselves want.

The highschool students on the board are not representing the will of the highschool students on the team.

I dont care what happens in the driver selection process as long as the students approve of it.

What should I tell this board?

[Kristina]

Well I think that this problem could be allieviated in the future by altering the ratio on the board. You have more parents than any other group which is great that they want to get involved, but this is really about the students. On our team the students and advisor make all the desicions and the parents help out at fundraising events, lending homes for building/meetings, food, etc.

Anyway, what I would do now is have the rest of the student members on the team ban together and decide as a group what they want and present it to the parents. State your unified case logically and hopefully they will listen. I would assume that you the students are the ones out there every day working, therefore you should also know what will be best for competition as far as driver selection (I mean, I could see where parent intervention would be needed but this wouldn't be it). Remember that FIRST is about high school'ers learning and if parents make a desicion that the majority of students are unhappy with, that defeats the purpose.

[Jeremy_Mc]

i'm not sure i'd even want a "board"...

a team is a team. there's no "i" or "large group of semi-elected officials" in team. they really should add the word "equal" to team, but that would make it a mouth full to say.

a team should be a democracy. i understand adults need to make certain decisions, but i think driver selection isn't one.

*jeremy

[ZACH P.]

you guys probably know your abilities better thatn anyone else, and know who would be the best candidate. Jus t try to make them see reason, or at least infulence their decision.

[NateMartin247]

I'm of the opinion that a board is good for some desicions, like dealing with sponsors, team finance, even important strategy issues, etc. But for team dynamics like leaders and drivers...

Think of it like a soccer team.
Some desicions are made by a board, like where they will play, who will coach, and how much funding the team will recieve... but what you're talking about is like having the board decide which person on the team will play forward, and who will play keeper- Only the players can make that desicion- Even if you see it as a question of captainship, the team should still make that desicion. My suggestion to you would be to hold a tryout and have the team decide based on that. Skill and dedication should be recognized here, by the team- not sway within a governing power like a board.

[Skabana159]

For large descions like this, you should put the matter to a universal vote rather than a representative vote. But that's just my socialistic point of view...

[Yan Wang]

This is not on the topic but I can't create a new topic for some reason...

I NEED THE SKYWAY ORDER FORM... if you have it, email it to me before 9pm tonight at monsieurcoffee@yahoo.com

If you can't do it before that time, don't bother. Thanks.

[srjjs]

Voting in general is a bad idea.
I'll give an example.
There is an issue on which the team is more or less evenly divided. Take the 10 smartest people and ask them. One of two things is likely to happen. The first possibility is that they are evenly divided. In that case, it means that intelligence in no way affects the decision, so you might as well flip a coin. The other possibility is that all 10 will agree on one side. That means that that choice is the correct one, but democracy prevents it from being made.

On the other hand, you board doesn't strike me as the best way of getting things done. I say to choose a build captain in an objective way, such as a series of tests.

[Redhead Jokes]

Originally posted by srjjs
I say to choose a build captain in an objective way, such as a series of tests.

That's my version. That's not how it's been done in our team in the past. I'm hoping that how we decide this year.

[Gadget470]

I think NateMartin247 put it best, even though he's a little too obsessed with soccer. *grin*

However, we at 470 noticed a few problems in the design process by having a unanamous vote for everything relating to the design.

We all, mechanical, PR, electrical, etc. took a day to think of basic designs. We took in scoring information and weighted it. Such as stack stealing vs stack smacking vs stack making vs ramp blocking. We decided as a non-issue by the information presented on the aspects we wanted to have.

Then we got into small groups, basically whoever was sitting next to you at the meeting, rolled out a big piece of paper (like in art rooms) and everyone drew their basic designs.
-[ by basic I mean, no measurements, no scale, no motor specs, no pnuematic specs, just conceptualize ]-

We then had a round table discussion letting each group present their idea. Abi's had something to do with a dragon barney breating fire on butterflies.. but that's OK too. . There was NO saying "That won't work" to an idea. It was 100% listen and think of why it wouldn't work. After the group was done presenting, it was open for direct discussion. Questions pertaining to how sides would mesh together, or how would that rotate?.. basic design flaw questions.

Then ideas were voted on by the group (which was of ZERO mentors). A top 3 were decided, then represented, with a devil's advocate attack at the group who designed it. Trying to etch out all thinkable flaws and improve on them. Our current design is nothing like the round table markings because we took basic ideas and built, pictorally, on them.


This is probably one of the better methods I've seen in the design process. Student designed, student decided.

It's your team, if it effects the team, it should be voted on. I think drivers is a very important decision, especially for a rookie team. Quarrel's can easily start from members not agreeing with mentors. Say, for example, your driver happens to be the son or daughter of one of the parents. I think the group of 6 could decide on a good candidate, but the rest of the team may feel 'so-and-so' is driver because his 'mom' said so.

Anything that makes people calmer and still have a voice is good I think.

[Jeff_Rice]

Here is what I think:

Get all the adults and students together.

Have the adults give their opinions

Have the students give their opinions.

Use Gadget470s idea for the students.

The students vote.

Make sure the adults realize their ideas will be challenged. Otherwise you may get in trouble. Maybe a form explaining the process of major decisions could be devised. However, there is the problem of bench sitters who only come to meetings and not work.

So spring the meeting during a work session, and for the most part everyone who really works and cares (including adults) will be there. This works well over a lunch break.

[Gadget470]

Bench sitters are good too sometimes. As long as they don't have final decision. Never vote for someone because they are your firend. Vote because you feel they are the best or their idea is the best.

Your team does not have the world's best driver, any ol' Joe can drive a robot. It takes skill and practice to drive it well. Let everyone who wants to drive the bot around, get some cones and do an obstacle course. Get some time trials, etc. etc. etc.

Popularity votes aren't always the right decision.


---

And to "this works well at a lunch break" I'd say right before lunch break have any presentations or questions brought up. If anything is in quarrel, lunch break time. Come back to it after everyone has had 15-45 min to cool off.

[George1902]

i've always thought driver selection should be purely subjective... who's the best?

first, figure out what kind of things your bot will be doing in the match. (stack / knock down stacks / whatever)

then set up the field accordingly and have the drivers be timed doing the tasks.

for example: if you're a stacker bot, scatter some boxes on the field (your side and the other side, maybe?) and see how long it takes the driver to make 4 (or 3 or 5... whatever) stacks of 4 (or whatever). best time gets to be the driver.

or maybe this: if you're a defensive bot, create some stacks on your opponents side and have each driver knock those stacks down and put those boxes on your side of the field. again, best time wins.

for this, you need to have a limited number of candidates, cause if everyone on the team got to try, you'd be shipping some time in April... maybe let the parents choose a candidate, let the coaches choose one, and let the students choose one.

in my experience, merit based selection such as this if the fairest and most widely accepted by team members. good luck in choosing a driver!

[MrBill]

Its great to see parent envolvment in any aspect of kids lives.
In this case my opinion is to see the students make the descision based on a try out. I work with the electronics on our team and when the final product is finished based on input from students and mentors, the students take over to compete.

Like soccer the coaches help the students develop their skills, when game time comes there is a rule in our soccer leauge.

"silent side lines"

We all make mistakes and this is the time to learn how to learn from them. By listening to others and being able to stand up for your self.

Good luck to all.

God bless America!!