FIRST Choice Sunday redux

[adlasa]

In my opinion this is unacceptable, Andymark is just wasting everyone's time. I postponed my Sunday plans on the understanding that the site would be fixed!

They should have allowed more time to fix the problem and not subject everyone to this time waster :| . I understand that it is hard to troubleshoot a large site but they could have at least given themselves more time to fix the problem, rather than give false promises.

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by adlasa

In my opinion this is unacceptable, Andymark is just wasting everyone's time. I postponed my Sunday plans on the understanding that the site would be fixed!

They should have allowed more time to fix the problem and not subject everyone to this time waster :| . I understand that it is hard to troubleshoot a large site but they could have at least given themselves more time to fix the problem, rather than give false promises.

Andymark isn't 'Just wasting everyone's time'.

Yesterday, it took about 2-2.5hrs for someone to conclusively delay FIRST Choice's Opening after people had wasted that time trying to log in and check out.

Today, it took less than 10 minutes (from 3pm) for AM to come out, admit fault and delay the opening. They're being extremely sensitive of other people's time here.

Yes, the situation sucks, but we'll get through it.

If anything, this is more of a reason for someone at HQ to look into a system that can handle 3000+ users at once. The FIRST site usually goes down after kick-off, and as we've seen, FC is susceptible to the same problem.

[Whippet]

Originally Posted by thefro526

Andymark isn't 'Just wasting everyone's time'.

Yesterday, it took about 2-2.5hrs for someone to conclusively delay FIRST Choice's Opening after people had wasted that time trying to log in and check out.

Today, it took less than 10 minutes (from 3pm) for AM to come out, admit fault and delay the opening. They're being extremely sensitive of other people's time here.

Yes, the situation sucks, but we'll get through it.

I concur. AndyMark is handling this very professionally, and I believe that they are giving the appropriate response given the circumstances.

[seg9585]

I'm not an expert on web traffic or sysadmin/IT, but I feel like 3000 connections is not a very large number to tax a single server with. If all the images were hosted externally and the only page generation processes were text-based (or even pre-generated with the only page generation and database calls during the actual ordering), I don't see why an 8-core Xeon couldn't handle it.

Even small websites on Black Friday get taxed orders of magnitude larger, and have a lot more products to navigate (more database entries and parameters).

Maybe this is a case of needing to go simpler. As in, html-based until carts are generated and CCs are taken.

[itsjustmrb]

Originally Posted by adlasa

In my opinion this is unacceptable, Andymark is just wasting everyone's time. I postponed my Sunday plans on the understanding that the site would be fixed!

They should have allowed more time to fix the problem and not subject everyone to this time waster :| . I understand that it is hard to troubleshoot a large site but they could have at least given themselves more time to fix the problem, rather than give false promises.

There seem to be quite a few people upset about getting free parts. If people keep complaining, Andy and FIRST might just decide we don't need to spend 600 credits and can just use the cash in our pockets. We all need to relax and let them fix the bugs and be the Gracious Professionals that we are and receive the free parts when they become available.

Mr. B

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by itsjustmrb

There seem to be quite a few people upset about getting free parts. If people keep complaining, Andy and FIRST might just decide we don't need to spend 600 credits and can just use the cash in our pockets. We all need to relax and let them fix the bugs and be the Gracious Professionals that we are and receive the free parts when they become available.

Mr. B

They're not free parts. FIRST Choice is part of the KOP. Since there are so many teams now, suppliers can't offer one of everything to every team, for example compressors. Everyone used to get a compressor, but now they're in FIRST Choice, and only the teams who want a compressor try and get one. It's still part of FRC that we pay for, they're not just free toys that we can play with that might be useful.

[itsjustmrb]

Originally Posted by Gregor

They're not free parts. FIRST Choice is part of the KOP. Since there are so many teams now, suppliers can't offer one of everything to every team, for example compressors. Everyone used to get a compressor, but now they're in FIRST Choice, and only the teams who want a compressor try and get one. It's still part of FRC that we pay for, they're not just free toys that we can play with that might be useful.

I respectfully disagree. I am pretty sure few, if any, paid their entry fee in order to get FIRST choice parts and are totally depending on them to build their robot. My point was that if we keep complaining about the unfortunate circumstances that are taking place, we might as well just pay for the compressors, because people are doing their best to get the parts to you free of charge. And yes, i am aware that we pay shipping charges, which we should...unless that is part of the registration fees also. I still consider them free or bonus parts. I did not pay $13,000 in registration fees to depend on FIRST choice parts, but I do appreciate the effort that is taking place to make them available.

It is not my intent to start a flame war here. If you would like to discuss this in more detail, please feel free to send me a pm.

Tia,

Mr. B

[jsasaki]

Originally Posted by itsjustmrb

There seem to be quite a few people upset about getting free parts. If people keep complaining, Andy and FIRST might just decide we don't need to spend 600 credits and can just use the cash in our pockets. We all need to relax and let them fix the bugs and be the Gracious Professionals that we are and receive the free parts when they become available.

Mr. B

you're getting them for free? we're paying thousands of dollars for these parts

[mrnoble]

Registration fees have been, for at least the 10 years I can recall, at least as high as they are now. KOP is part of that, sure, but personally I wouldn't have ever paid 5 or 6K for a box of metal and plastic and a controller. I've always thought of the entry fee as providing my team with a professionally designed game, a large, professionally designed and built playing field, rental of a top-notch facility and equipment for competition, and training for all of the important people who make the competitions run smoothly. I know there are often glitches, but I've participated in enough other events (such as non-FIRST robotics, STEM clubs, and pumpkin-tossing catapults) to greatly appreciate the high bar FRC sets each year.

[seg9585]

Originally Posted by mrnoble

Registration fees have been, for at least the 10 years I can recall, at least as high as they are now. KOP is part of that, sure, but personally I wouldn't have ever paid 5 or 6K for a box of metal and plastic and a controller. I've always thought of the entry fee as providing my team with a professionally designed game, a large, professionally designed and built playing field, rental of a top-notch facility and equipment for competition, and training for all of the important people who make the competitions run smoothly. I know there are often glitches, but I've participated in enough other events (such as non-FIRST robotics, STEM clubs, and pumpkin-tossing catapults) to greatly appreciate the high bar FRC sets each year.

Who here has attempted to run events of this scale? I've organized and ran several aerospace conferences with much fewer people in attendance and a relatively trivial amount of preparation, subcontractor hiring, etc compared to FRC Regionals that themselves reach 100k or more in expenses.

$5000/team barely scratches the surface to covering the cost of this endeavor. Assuming 55 teams at a regional that equates to $275k income. I'm willing to bet simply renting out the entire venue for 5 days (with a day for setup/cleanup) costs more than that alone, not to mention the network, electrical, safety, A/V, FIRST staffing, field construction, and all other infrastructure. And on top of that we get the kit of parts (value $1500-2k?) and an entire year of folks dedicated to designing a quality game with specific requirements, getting workable hardware and software solutions out to teams, and still providing logistical and financial support to practically every team including those internationally. I am personally impressed at how cheap these regionals are to participate in..

[Steven Donow]

Originally Posted by seg9585

Who here has attempted to run events of this scale? I've organized and ran several aerospace conferences with much fewer people in attendance and a relatively trivial amount of preparation, subcontractor hiring, etc compared to FRC Regionals that themselves reach 100k or more in expenses.

$5000/team barely scratches the surface to covering the cost of this endeavor. Assuming 55 teams at a regional that equates to $275k income. I'm willing to bet simply renting out the entire venue for 5 days (with a day for setup/cleanup) costs more than that alone, not to mention the network, electrical, safety, A/V, FIRST staffing, field construction, and all other infrastructure. And on top of that we get the kit of parts (value $1500-2k?) and an entire year of folks dedicated to designing a quality game with specific requirements, getting workable hardware and software solutions out to teams, and still providing logistical and financial support to practically every team including those internationally. I am personally impressed at how cheap these regionals are to participate in..

From what I recall in past discussions, regionals don't see a dime of registration costs. Regionals are incredibly costly; even cost was one of the major factors in MAR switching over to the district model

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by seg9585

Who here has attempted to run events of this scale? I've organized and ran several aerospace conferences with much fewer people in attendance and a relatively trivial amount of preparation, subcontractor hiring, etc compared to FRC Regionals that themselves reach 100k or more in expenses.

$5000/team barely scratches the surface to covering the cost of this endeavor. Assuming 55 teams at a regional that equates to $275k income. I'm willing to bet simply renting out the entire venue for 5 days (with a day for setup/cleanup) costs more than that alone, not to mention the network, electrical, safety, A/V, FIRST staffing, field construction, and all other infrastructure. And on top of that we get the kit of parts (value $1500-2k?) and an entire year of folks dedicated to designing a quality game with specific requirements, getting workable hardware and software solutions out to teams, and still providing logistical and financial support to practically every team including those internationally. I am personally impressed at how cheap these regionals are to participate in..

You'd be less impressed if you knew that your registration fee doesn't go to that regional at all.

[geomapguy]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

You'd be less impressed if you knew that your registration fee doesn't go to that regional at all.

But more impressed with the fundraising endeavors of Regional Directors

[seg9585]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

You'd be less impressed if you knew that your registration fee doesn't go to that regional at all.

Are you sure? If this is the case, why is there a $4000 fee for a second regional? Teams don't get anything in return and competitions are merely filling their capacities.

[MechEng83]

Originally Posted by seg9585

Are you sure? If this is the case, why is there a $4000 fee for a second regional? Teams don't get anything in return and competitions are merely filling their capacities.

Talking with people who run regionals, none of the money from registration goes to paying for the costs of running a regional. The regional directors have to find sponsorship to pay for the regionals.