FIRST Choice Sunday redux

[mrnoble]

Registration fees have been, for at least the 10 years I can recall, at least as high as they are now. KOP is part of that, sure, but personally I wouldn't have ever paid 5 or 6K for a box of metal and plastic and a controller. I've always thought of the entry fee as providing my team with a professionally designed game, a large, professionally designed and built playing field, rental of a top-notch facility and equipment for competition, and training for all of the important people who make the competitions run smoothly. I know there are often glitches, but I've participated in enough other events (such as non-FIRST robotics, STEM clubs, and pumpkin-tossing catapults) to greatly appreciate the high bar FRC sets each year.

[JB987]

Originally Posted by jsasaki

you're getting them for free? we're paying thousands of dollars for these parts

I respectfully disagree with the premise. Even though the ability to take part in the process requires a registration status for the season it doesn't automatically follow that your registration payment is paying for any part of the items you receive from FC. In years prior to FC the registration fee was the same amount and you only got the same KOP that every other team of the same status got, with no options to order various components for just the cost of shipping as we have today with FC.

[Steven Donow]

To add to the "registration paying for FIRST Choice discussion", I don't know about this year (because it's closed currently), but in past years, many of the items in FIRST Choice had, in the description, "Donated by _______". So no, FIRST is not buying all of this stuff to give out to us.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, isn't a good portion of the kit donated parts?

[seg9585]

Originally Posted by mrnoble

Registration fees have been, for at least the 10 years I can recall, at least as high as they are now. KOP is part of that, sure, but personally I wouldn't have ever paid 5 or 6K for a box of metal and plastic and a controller. I've always thought of the entry fee as providing my team with a professionally designed game, a large, professionally designed and built playing field, rental of a top-notch facility and equipment for competition, and training for all of the important people who make the competitions run smoothly. I know there are often glitches, but I've participated in enough other events (such as non-FIRST robotics, STEM clubs, and pumpkin-tossing catapults) to greatly appreciate the high bar FRC sets each year.

Who here has attempted to run events of this scale? I've organized and ran several aerospace conferences with much fewer people in attendance and a relatively trivial amount of preparation, subcontractor hiring, etc compared to FRC Regionals that themselves reach 100k or more in expenses.

$5000/team barely scratches the surface to covering the cost of this endeavor. Assuming 55 teams at a regional that equates to $275k income. I'm willing to bet simply renting out the entire venue for 5 days (with a day for setup/cleanup) costs more than that alone, not to mention the network, electrical, safety, A/V, FIRST staffing, field construction, and all other infrastructure. And on top of that we get the kit of parts (value $1500-2k?) and an entire year of folks dedicated to designing a quality game with specific requirements, getting workable hardware and software solutions out to teams, and still providing logistical and financial support to practically every team including those internationally. I am personally impressed at how cheap these regionals are to participate in..

[Steven Donow]

Originally Posted by seg9585

Who here has attempted to run events of this scale? I've organized and ran several aerospace conferences with much fewer people in attendance and a relatively trivial amount of preparation, subcontractor hiring, etc compared to FRC Regionals that themselves reach 100k or more in expenses.

$5000/team barely scratches the surface to covering the cost of this endeavor. Assuming 55 teams at a regional that equates to $275k income. I'm willing to bet simply renting out the entire venue for 5 days (with a day for setup/cleanup) costs more than that alone, not to mention the network, electrical, safety, A/V, FIRST staffing, field construction, and all other infrastructure. And on top of that we get the kit of parts (value $1500-2k?) and an entire year of folks dedicated to designing a quality game with specific requirements, getting workable hardware and software solutions out to teams, and still providing logistical and financial support to practically every team including those internationally. I am personally impressed at how cheap these regionals are to participate in..

From what I recall in past discussions, regionals don't see a dime of registration costs. Regionals are incredibly costly; even cost was one of the major factors in MAR switching over to the district model

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by seg9585

Who here has attempted to run events of this scale? I've organized and ran several aerospace conferences with much fewer people in attendance and a relatively trivial amount of preparation, subcontractor hiring, etc compared to FRC Regionals that themselves reach 100k or more in expenses.

$5000/team barely scratches the surface to covering the cost of this endeavor. Assuming 55 teams at a regional that equates to $275k income. I'm willing to bet simply renting out the entire venue for 5 days (with a day for setup/cleanup) costs more than that alone, not to mention the network, electrical, safety, A/V, FIRST staffing, field construction, and all other infrastructure. And on top of that we get the kit of parts (value $1500-2k?) and an entire year of folks dedicated to designing a quality game with specific requirements, getting workable hardware and software solutions out to teams, and still providing logistical and financial support to practically every team including those internationally. I am personally impressed at how cheap these regionals are to participate in..

You'd be less impressed if you knew that your registration fee doesn't go to that regional at all.

[geomapguy]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

You'd be less impressed if you knew that your registration fee doesn't go to that regional at all.

But more impressed with the fundraising endeavors of Regional Directors

[seg9585]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

You'd be less impressed if you knew that your registration fee doesn't go to that regional at all.

Are you sure? If this is the case, why is there a $4000 fee for a second regional? Teams don't get anything in return and competitions are merely filling their capacities.

[mrnoble]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

You'd be less impressed if you knew that your registration fee doesn't go to that regional at all.

Would I be? If FIRST has figured out how to run every aspect of FLLjr, FLL, FTC, and FRC internationally, and network these thousands of kids from grade school to college scholarship with the best companies and institutions in the world, and somehow keep both their core organization and the various local and regional groups not only afloat, but expanding, then I couldn't care less.

[MechEng83]

Originally Posted by seg9585

Are you sure? If this is the case, why is there a $4000 fee for a second regional? Teams don't get anything in return and competitions are merely filling their capacities.

Talking with people who run regionals, none of the money from registration goes to paying for the costs of running a regional. The regional directors have to find sponsorship to pay for the regionals.

[geomapguy]

Originally Posted by MechEng83

Talking with people who run regionals, none of the money from registration goes to paying for the costs of running a regional. The regional directors have to find sponsorship to pay for the regionals.

What about FiM, MAR, NE, and MAR. Seems like they would need it

[EricH]

Originally Posted by geomapguy

What about FiM, MAR, NE, and MAR. Seems like they would need it

Part of the district system is that the event costs are cut pretty solidly. Instead of renting an arena for 4 days, setting up full A/V equipment, etc, you rent a school gym for 3 days (which is cheaper, or tends to be) and use what happens to be there already for A/V, maybe bring in a projector or two with screens. That savings doesn't necessarily get passed on to the teams, but it sure helps the RDs out when fundraising--lower target per event (though there are more events...)

[JimBowey]

Did anyone else notice that no one from FIRST stepped in and laid out how the 501c3 uses fees and donations?

[geomapguy]

Originally Posted by EricH

Part of the district system is that the event costs are cut pretty solidly. Instead of renting an arena for 4 days, setting up full A/V equipment, etc, you rent a school gym for 3 days (which is cheaper, or tends to be) and use what happens to be there already for A/V, maybe bring in a projector or two with screens. That savings doesn't necessarily get passed on to the teams, but it sure helps the RDs out when fundraising--lower target per event (though there are more events...)

Is this why 3rd and 4th event registration is only $500/$1000

[ttakashima]

Originally Posted by Cory

Or just put the website on a server that can handle 3000 people all trying to place orders at once.

How many people do you think are purchasing something right now from any major company's website? Over 3000, for sure. They don't have any issues.

This really shouldn't be very hard, but FIRST's history is littered with cases of not being able to handle the volume of web traffic that can be predicted fairly easily.

I wonder if FIRST has approached any of these major companies. They may need to in the future though if this keeps happening.