[FRC Blog] 2014 Game Hint

[Skidzoo]

Originally Posted by gavmac928

...keep in mind that his drawing is just one speculation, and that the bottom square could also be a pyramid.

I actually factored the pyramid base in when I was originally coming up with my theory (with the same explanation as below), but now that I think about it, the pyramid base could also be applied to another scenario.

In both cases, a pyramid base would prevent a robot that runs into the base from having its parts jarred lose by running into an edge, and it wouldn't shake the pole as much as a flat piece of metal, although a flat base a few centimeters higher than the ground should not have much of an effect on the robot's functionality (but who knows). The other advantage of having a pyramid base is that it allows round objects to roll down its slopes, so a pyramid base could mean that there are a lot of small, round objects (or one big one). Either way, the slope helps round objects roll off the base.

Now, for the two possibilities:

1) The tee-ball version. For the sake of saving space, refer back to my earlier post if you forget or haven't seen it.

2) A fill-the-basket scenario: If there are a lot of small game pieces, that probably means that there is a bucket or some sort of container (the sphere with a hole in the top) that needs to be filled with those aforementioned game pieces (probably a small-diameter ball, like a tennis ball or a golf ball). The sloped sides would make any pieces that don't make it into the bucket go back out onto the field, where you pick them up again.

I personally like the tee-ball idea more, though.

Also, it's late and I have been thinking about this for a long time, so there are probably some gaps in my logic, and I think that explanation might not be as clear as I thought it was... if you see any problems or are confused, just tell me and I will be happy to explain again or rethink my theory.

[Munchskull]

I know I am a little late to the party but did any one else notice that the numbers all form a repeating decimal?
8234/57 144.456140350877192982


62326/15806= 3.94318613184866506389978489181323548019739339491332 40541566493736555738327217512337087182082753384790 58585347336454510945210679488801720865494116158420 85284069340756674680501075540933822599013033025433 37972921675313172213083639124383145640895862330760 47070732633177274452739466025559913956725294192078 95735796532962166265974946222953308870049348348728 33101353916234341389345818043780842717955206883461 97646463368341136277363026698722004302163735290396 05213210173351891686701252688852334556497532582563 58344932304188282930532709097810957864102239655826 90117676831582


61126/1963= 31.13907284768211920529801324503311258278145695364238 4105960264900662251655629

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Munchskull

I know I am a little late to the party but did any one else notice that the numbers all form a repeating decimal?

All rational numbers are either repeating decimals or end after a finite number of decimal digits. Not particularly noteworthy.

[JohnSchneider]

Originally Posted by Mr. N

Happy Boxing Day!


(Apologies if I'm duplicating ideas from earlier posts...)

Let's assume the hint is not an alphanumeric cipher, but rather refers to three "things". Personally, I do not believe these are coordinates (in physical space or colour space), since the inclusion of the "/" is an odd way to represent a coordinate.

I think each "thing" is a geometric object (game piece or field element), and the "Large Number/Small Number" defines the shape somehow. The relative magnitude of the numbers suggests (at least to me) "Volume/Area".

I had a look at the volume and area formulas for various solids (source: Engineering Toolbox/Volume and Surfaces of Common Solids). At first, I tried to match up Volume to Surface Area without much luck. However, when I instead looked at Cross-Sectional Area (or some representative planar area), things started jumping out.

Now, since absolute values are given for both Volume and Area, they are expressed in terms of some "unit" which is not explicitly defined. I think mm are too small, so the most likely "unit" is either inch or cm.

Here is a summary of the solids corresponding to each number group (all dimensions expressed in rounded "units")

• 8234/57 = tall cylinder (8.6 dia x 146) OR toroid (8.5 minor dia. x 46 major dia.)
  
• 61126/1963 = sphere (49 dia) -- minus a little bit, suggesting a cut-out or cavity
  
• 62326/15806 = shallow square pyramid (126 x 126 x 12 tall) OR shallow square platform (126 x 126 x 4 tall)

I drew these shapes to scale and put some of them into an assembly (based on pure speculation). Please see attachment.

given the geometric nature of most first games this actually seems pretty neat...

[Derpancakes]

Don't know if anyone has pointed this out, but they're in a hangar in the picture. Look at the floor drains, the corrugated metal walls, and the cockpit diagram in the back left. Seems interesting.

[Derpancakes]

Originally Posted by Derpancakes

Don't know if anyone has pointed this out, but they're in a hangar in the picture. Look at the floor drains, the corrugated metal walls, and the cockpit diagram in the back left. Seems interesting.

Well, I redact the statement about the walls upon further invetigation. But still, it looks a lot like a hangar. I've spent a good amount of time in and around them.
Also 666th post

[ENIAC]

Originally Posted by Derpancakes

Don't know if anyone has pointed this out, but they're in a hangar in the picture. Look at the floor drains, the corrugated metal walls, and the cockpit diagram in the back left. Seems interesting.

Cockpit diagram! So that's what it is...

Also, in regard to the weight limit sign, perhaps that indicates a game component involving moving larger, heavier game pieces around the field, à la Stack Attack, but with a stipulation that the game piece must be within the frame perimeter whilst moving? A wild conjecture, but what isn't, at this time of year?

[Mr. N]

Further to my original post (#649, p44):

Attached, please find an Excel spreadsheet containing the calculations for my analysis. The exact numbers are given with no coarse round-off. (Please check my math.)

Here are a few additional notes:

1. If the "Volume/Area" assumption is correct, then any geometric solid that can be represented by two independent parameters (e.g., cylinders, prisms, pyramids, cones) may be forced to fit. So there are myriad possibilities.
   
2. The exceptions are single parameter shapes like spheres and cubes. You can choose the parameter to match volume or area but not both. However, once you do so, if you do get a match for the other quantity, then it's a good bet that the shape is a sphere or cube.
   
3. The "Volume/Area" is akin to aspect ratio (in this case, it's a characteristic length), in that it says something about the general properties of the shape. For example, "8234/57" is a large ratio, but the "volume" number is small, which suggests a tall, thin object (whatever it ends up being). For my "guess", I chose a tall, slender pole (in keeping with past FIRST games). Conversely, "62326/15806" is more "massive" than the first shape, but the ratio is much smaller, suggesting a large but very shallow object (like a flat platform or a pyramid with gently sloping sides or a very squat cone).
   
4. As people have rightly pointed out, the drawing I posted is pure speculation. There is not enough information to specify the exact shapes. However, if you ask yourself, "What Would FIRST Do?", then certain shapes (balls, platform, poles) seem to be more likely than others (e.g., 9' tall cones with a narrow base).
   
5. The most "tantalizing" match concerns the number "1963". If we assume it is a circular area, then the corresponding diameter is "49.99" units --- extremely close to "50". To me, this appears to be more than a coincidence. It strongly suggests something round or spherical with a diameter of 50 cm or perhaps 50 inches (rejecting something measured in mm as too small for FRC).
   
6. The most "irritating" object is Shape 2 ("61126/1963"). It is almost an exact match for a 50-unit sphere --- almost! In fact, it is off by 4%. You can get an exact match if you assume a prolate spheriod (i.e., a squashed sphere) with major and minor diameters of 50 and 48.3, respectively. (Could this be a slightly saggy "yoga ball"???) You can also get an exact match if you assume a perfect 50-unit sphere with a small bite, flat or hole taken out of it (for hooking onto a pole, perhaps???).

Anyway, I hope this helps.

Attached is a drawing of a torus that matches Shape 1 (major diameter = 45.98 units, with an outside diameter almost exactly equal to a sphere that matches Shape 2).

[Mr. N]

Originally Posted by smarthimandrew

I am currently in the middle of checking the math on this one. I don't like how much rounding is involved here. Would you please post your work for how you got those dimensions for the objects.

Please see my update in Post #668. I've attached the spreadsheet on which my calculations were based, so you can see the numbers without round-off. You can also use the spreadsheet to check the formulas.

[E Dawg]

Remember: Game hints all depend on whether or not they think we think they think about what we think they think is related in any way to what they think we think they thought about what we thought about their thinking.

[Derpancakes]

Originally Posted by E Dawg

Remember: Game hints all depend on whether or not they think we think they think about what we think they think is related in any way to what they think we think they thought about what we thought about their thinking.

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[Flimsor]

Those field elements that Mr. N made make a lot more sense if you use the torus. Then it looks like you're putting inner tubes on a vertical post, and stacking them up. That seems very reasonable.

[cad321]

Originally Posted by Flimsor

Those field elements that Mr. N made make a lot more sense if you use the torus. Then it looks like you're putting inner tubes on a vertical post, and stacking them up. That seems very reasonable.

Based upon Mr. N's latest extrapolation of the game hint, its looking very similar to VEX Round Up from the 2010/2011 season. Perhaps replace the middle pyramid with those promising looking stairs found many pages back.

[smarthimandrew]

Originally Posted by Mr. N

It is almost an exact match for a 50-unit sphere --- almost! In fact, it is off by 4%. You can get an exact match if you assume a prolate spheriod (i.e., a squashed sphere) with major and minor diameters of 50 and 48.3, respectively.

This is interesting because the ratio of earth's diameters is about 1.0032160486.
The ratio of the prolate spheriod's diameters is about 1.03519668737.

Is this close enough to be considered a clue?

[Jibri Wright]

I think its going to be some sort of turf war like King of the Hill or Territories. The triangle representing that there are three territories that teams will try to take over. This may true considering there are three robots on each team. There will also probably be different types of terrain. Each robot specializing in a certain type of terrain or all three considering what type of robot you build.