[FRC Blog] Kickoff Broadcast and Game Hint Redux

[thursam]

Originally Posted by atucker4072

Not that I don't want a water game and I hope that there is sometime but at the moment using water with the current control system is not that great of an idea. Just one slip up and a teams season is ruined.

And that was my teammate's concern. He's the electrical engineer in the group, and when I told him the theory, he freaked out. But he also said that if there was a minor element of water - like if only a portion of the field is water or there is a slight water element.

Like if you have to fish balls out of a small pool in the center of the field or something. It's purely speculation, but it's what he thinks.

[atucker4072]

Originally Posted by Tanis

Not necessarily. To me, that is like saying that scoring a goal in soccer or basketball leaves the rest of the team out.

I'm imagining passing a ball, or two robots pushing one object together. The third robot could be defending, getting another piece, or performing another challenge (since FRC games always have multiple ways to score).

This seams reasonable. Just trying to get better information and making stuff more viable!

[Jay O'Donnell]

The problem I see with the idea if having assisting or passing of some sort between teammates means that you have to rely on getting good teammates in qualifications. As any FIRSTer knows, there's always that match where you are the only robot who is able to do anything, and this that could screw over a really good team simply because of luck of the draw.

[atucker4072]

Originally Posted by thursam

And that was my teammate's concern. He's the electrical engineer in the group, and when I told him the theory, he freaked out. But he also said that if there was a minor element of water - like if only a portion of the field is water or there is a slight water element.

Like if you have to fish balls out of a small pool in the center of the field or something. It's purely speculation, but it's what he thinks.

I still don't think that at the current time there could be even that. Just too much risk. I could see them in the future making upgrades and special products to use small amounts of water.

[PrimeRib]

For those looking for a possible connection between the poem/rhyme the GDC recently released and this updated game hint for verification if you are still weary of the hint relating to "Assisting," here is one possible solution. In the poem it states, "Much clearer is this one we claim." If you look at the overall meaning of it and what the GDC was trying to do rather then trying to decipher or analyze it for some deeply hidden clue which is what the GDC said to avoid by stating that people are trying to hard, you see that the GDC is trying to help us, in other words they're trying to "Assist" us. It is only a possible connection, not certain.

[atucker4072]

Originally Posted by PrimeRib

For those looking for a possible connection between the poem/rhyme the GDC recently released and this updated game hint for verification, here is one possible solution. In the poem it states, "Much clearer is this one we claim." If you look at the overall meaning of it and what the GDC was trying to do rather then trying to decipher or analyze it for some deeply hidden clue which is what the GDC said to avoid by stating that people are trying to hard, you see that the GDC is trying to help us, in other words they're trying to "Assist" us. It is only a possible connection, not certain.

And this is why we should be focusing on the assist part now...

[apples000]

I don't think that we'll see to much coopertition or working together too much. Balancing on the bridge in 2012 wasn't that difficult, you just needed a driving robot and somebody to tip the bridge toward you, yet it was painful to watch crazy good teams like 254 waste a minute of their match in order to attempt (then fail) their coopertition balance. It really can bring down the game.

FIRST received negative feedback on cooperating with a simple game element, I doubt the whole game will be about assisting and working together. Think about 2010, with robots hanging from robots. We only saw that a few times the whole season!

[bduddy]

In all three sports the hint deals with, an "assist" is only recorded by the actual passing of a game piece from one player to another. As difficult as it may have been in the past, I really do think that is probably what the GDC is going for this year.

[atucker4072]

Originally Posted by apples000

I don't think that we'll see to much coopertition or working together too much. Balancing on the bridge in 2012 wasn't that difficult, you just needed a driving robot and somebody to tip the bridge toward you, yet it was painful to watch crazy good teams like 254 waste a minute of their match in order to attempt (then fail) their coopertition balance. It really can bring down the game.

FIRST received negative feedback on cooperating with a simple game element, I doubt the whole game will be about assisting and working together. Think about 2010, with robots hanging from robots. We only saw that a few times the whole season!

It still would be nice to see it brought back in my opinion. It brings a whole new element to the match and can be very exciting. Just because 254 couldn't do it that well doesn't mean much. Teams should have realized that it ment something and should have designed robots to easily accomplish the relatively easy task. That is the reason lots of teams struggled at regionals, they didn't know how to coopertate.

[brrian27]

I don't think any game would rely purely on having a teammate assist you. As others have said, you might not have another functioning robot on your alliance!

However, assisting might help you in the game. So it's something that one team could do alone in a pinch, but is much easier for multiple teams to do together.

[Abhishek R]

I can see coopertition, but nothing too big. If you can't win a match with just one robot, then it's not a good game.

What I mean is if there is some sort of restriction (i.e. the game piece must be passed to each team on the alliance) and one team is incapable of performing the task, that means the alliance loses at no fault of the teams who were capable.

I don't think I'm explaining myself clearly.

[DampRobot]

Originally Posted by atucker4072

It still would be nice to see it brought back in my opinion. It brings a whole new element to the match and can be very exciting. Just because 254 couldn't do it that well doesn't mean much. Teams should have realized that it ment something and should have designed robots to easily accomplish the relatively easy task. That is the reason lots of teams struggled at regionals, they didn't know how to coopertate.

254 could do it quite well, and realized the value of co-oping early on. However, as Cory is spotlighted as saying, "it sucked because you not only had to depend on your partners being good, but your opponents too."

Your opponents not only had to have a working drivetrain, but a coach that recognized when it was time to balance, decently competent drivers, the foresight to coordinate with the opposing alliance, and the maturity to not decide to botch a balance in order to tank a teams rankings.

[atucker4072]

Originally Posted by Abhishek R

I can see coopertition, but nothing too big. If you can't win a match with just one robot, then it's not a good game.

What I mean is if there is some sort of restriction (i.e. the game piece must be passed to each team on the alliance) and one team is incapable of performing the task, that means the alliance loses at no fault of the teams who were capable.

I don't think I'm explaining myself clearly.

I get it and it makes sense. I would think coopertition in this case would be similar 2012 were the alliances could work together and not hurt their alliance.

[magnets]

Originally Posted by DampRobot

254 could do it quite well, and realized the value of co-oping early on. However, as Cory is spotlighted as saying, "it sucked because you not only had to depend on your partners being good, but your opponents too."

Your opponents not only had to have a working drivetrain, but a coach that recognized when it was time to balance, decently competent drivers, the foresight to coordinate with the opposing alliance, and the maturity to not decide to botch a balance in order to tank a teams rankings.

I agree that the 2012 win-is-as-valuable-as-coopertition-balance system was flawed, and that it has the ability to turn into people saying "I only lost because my opponents were worse than yours", but I do think some sort of cooperating would be nice, especially in the elimination rounds. It shouldn't be the only way of scoring, but I think it could work out nicely, if done right.

[apples000]

Originally Posted by atucker4072

It still would be nice to see it brought back in my opinion. It brings a whole new element to the match and can be very exciting. Just because 254 couldn't do it that well doesn't mean much. .

I think it does.

254 did it to the best ability possible of any team, as did all the other competitive teams, and still failed to be effective.

If teams like 254, 1114, etc... don't do it right, then something is not right with the game. Somewhere there's a match where 254 is making basket after basket, crossing the field, avoiding defense, and having one of the most entertaining matches of Rebound rumble I've ever seen, then with 1:15 left, drives up to the coopertition bridge, attempts balancing with a team completely unable to balance, and at the end of the match, doesn't have a balance, and looses, because they didn't score for more than half of the match. They get 0 qualifying points for the match.