[FRC Blog] Kickoff Broadcast and Game Hint Redux

[raptaconehs]

Ok so I saw the Wikipedia edit which said that the 2014 FRC game was Step Up. Which might not mean anything, but I would like to put out there that someone in the original game hint thread mentioned how turning a picture looked like stairs. So maybe at the endgame you have to climb the stairs.

[Abhishek R]

Originally Posted by raptaconehs

Ok so I saw the Wikipedia edit which said that the 2014 FRC game was Step Up. Which might not mean anything, but I would like to put out there that someone in the original game hint thread mentioned how turning a picture looked like stairs. So maybe at the endgame you have to climb the stairs.

Don't trust Wikipedia. Some guy thought it would be funny to mess the page up, the game is not "Step Up."

[Squillo]

Originally Posted by Abhishek R

Don't trust Wikipedia. Some guy thought it would be funny to mess the page up, the game is not "Step Up."

I just have to respond to this without (I admit! mea culpa!) reading the subsequent posts. But has anyone considered that the GDC might have a <gasp> leak? That this "FakeGDC" might actually have some accurate information, and taking down the edit was just "damage control"?

I mean, there was that apparent/possible staircase.

And I have another idea that also fits into the "assists" angle, which I will not post until I have read ALL the posts. So, I'm going back to it...

[Christopher149]

Don't trust Wikipedia. Some guy thought it would be funny to mess the page up, the game is not "Step Up."

It's also definitely not Lunacy II: Electric Hocky Boogaloo (especially since they couldn't spell Hockey).

[Oblarg]

I, for one, would welcome the return of oversized game pieces. The track balls from 2008 are far-and-away my favorite FRC game piece that I've worked with (in fact, 2008 is far-and-away my favorite FRC game).

[Jengles]

In some sports (one being hockey), scoring a goal and having an assist are both counted the same as a point. This demonstrates for the importance of not only scoring for your own team but also inter team cooperation. FIRST constantly stresses working together such as the theme of gracious professionalism. This idea of working together was prevalent in "Rebound Rumble".

Obvious examples include Coopertition points for balancing on the bridge with the other team (these points did not affect the score of the match only the seeding ranks). The use of the Coopertition points to determine rankings though upset a lot of people because it did not always properly represent teams and their robot's capabilities. The game also allowed for balancing with your own team as an end game way to get more match points. There were still more chances to work with your teammates in this game. There was in the autonomous period, what became the common practice of reversing balls out of one's robot and into another robot for more autonomous points. And during the teleop period, some teams had robots that were so good at shooting their biggest problem was they would score all of the basketballs on their side and have no more to shoot. They solved this problem with teamwork by having robots go shoot balls across the field for them, thus allowing them to have a bigger supply to shoot.

In "Ultimate Ascent", because of all the hate of the Coopertition points they were removed. This was a huge blow to the attempt to teach students to work with even those you’re competing against to become better. The game itself even lost all the sense of teamwork that was heavily promoted the year prior. In its teleop, the way to maximize points was to have all the robots go their separate ways in order to shoot from different locations. Even the end game was a solitary play; it went from balancing with a teammate to, "I have this side of the pyramid you have yours, don't get in my way". This is not the attitude that FIRST is trying to condone; therefore, they will try to make teamwork an important aspect of the game.

All of this is why I think that this year they will make assists equal in value to ‘goals’ (or whatever scoring is this year) in respect to match points. Coopertition still won’t return because of popular dislike of them though. By doing this they will promote working together, but also allow some teams to have a chance of winning by scoring alone if their teammates are of no use. If this is true then the hint interpretation which shows the records of assists for various sports would seem plausible. If that interpretation is plausible, then the game this year would logically follow to being hockey. Also the fact that this year is the United States 75th anniversary for ice hockey, helps further the reason why it would be a good year to make a hockey game. It’s just a theory. A game theory.

[atucker4072]

This is leaning more towards a hockey based game at this point... what if it took the obstacles of breakaway and the coopertition from rebound rumble? This would make the basketball and soccer assit records come in. Maybe there would be a certain area where you could shoot a "puck" the length of the field. But it could easily be defended by the opposing alliance. Then bring back coopertition between just one alliance. Putting obstacles would definitely make it more interesting than just an open floor. Also if the game element was put in at one point a robot could pass it to the teammate to score quicker.

[Joseph Lewis]

A lot of people so far have been thinking that the Coopertition factor will have to be between opposing alliances, or assisting members of the same alliance. Let us not forget 2001 where all the robots played on the same alliance for the highest score, with the clock as their opponent. Perhaps we see the return of something like this? This would promote assisting each other, but not make it a necessity. Theoretically, 1 robot could perform just as well as 4 in 2001, but having 4 good robots made scoring high even easier. I feel like this is more likely to happen than having to pass objects between alliance members because it reduces the oh-no-my-alliance-members-are-box-bots scenario.

And, by the way, Coopertition was first introduced in 2000, with Coopertition FIRST, not in 2012 with the bridges. 2012 just seems to be the only game people can remember because Coopertition played such a big part in the tournament outcome.

EDIT: was rereading the thread and found a discussion of this 2 pages back. Not meaning to bring up a dead topic, but I feel like we dismissed this with too little thought. Too much of the discussion was geared towards the rules and regulations of the 2001 game and not enough of the possibilities for adapting it for the assisting idea in 2014.

[RobotDoktor]

Well I finally made it through the whole thread and feel like posting my thoughts.

I think that the game will most likely be hockey. It matches the hint, as hockey is the only of the three mentioned games which has not already been done. Being a sport would follow the pattern so far (while ultimate Frisbee is a sport, the actual game was very little like it).

I believe it will be played with balls, similar to street/field hockey. This follows the ball/no ball pattern and matches the GDC's expressed desire to move towards more common scoring elements (as opposed to carpet pucks etc).

I think that while assists is a main part of the hint, coopertition points are not necessarily coming back. More likely is an increased emphasis on strategy/cooperation between teams in alliances. As suggested before, getting ranking points for assists would promote teamwork and fit well with a hockey game. At the same time, the new KoP chassis enhances modularity, allowing one robot to adapt to multiple positions or roles.

*Edit: regarding the number three. It could be a red herring, as it has come up multiple times in the past without being significant. As someone already mentioned, hockey is played in three periods. More interestingly, it is played with three inch diameter pucks. Likewise, street hockey balls are usually of three inch diameter,

[pandamonium]

Assists - soccer basketball hockey

Breakaway - we could only contact balls within a few inches of the robot and only so high.
Rebound rumble - 3 balls per a robot.
Lunacy - trailers - movable goals
Assisting robots can have x balls at anyone time scoring robots can only have one at a time. this is hinting at a flexible limit on gamepieces. Merging the two types of ball games low quantity and high quantity.

[jwfoss]

I don't normally post in these threads but I am feeling nostalgic.
Maybe all of this talk of hockey is in reference to the "puck" from the 1999 FRC Game Double Trouble.

[Dad1279]

Originally Posted by jwfoss

I don't normally post in these threads but I am feeling nostalgic.
Maybe all of this talk of hockey is in reference to the "puck" from the 1999 FRC Game Double Trouble.

1999: 8 Regionals and Champs at Epcot...

I think it's time we will see a return of multiple size balls and moveable goals

Great detective work on the 'assists'.... in 48 hours we'll know what it means.

[Niezrecki]

Originally Posted by RobotDoktor

(while ultimate Frisbee is a sport, the actual game was very little like it).

Actually. Ultimate Ascent is more based off of Frisbee Golf than Ultimate Frisbee. The baskets at the top of the pyramid are almost identical to the goals in Frisbee Golf.

Here is an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...-QzUG_Eo#t=401

[Libby K]

Originally Posted by Squillo

I just have to respond to this without (I admit! mea culpa!) reading the subsequent posts. But has anyone considered that the GDC might have a <gasp> leak? That this "FakeGDC" might actually have some accurate information, and taking down the edit was just "damage control"?

I mean, there was that apparent/possible staircase.

And I have another idea that also fits into the "assists" angle, which I will not post until I have read ALL the posts. So, I'm going back to it...

It's been covered in great detail that @FakeGDC is just that - a fake. Run by a student.

[gavmac928]

I think that it's less about the assists, and more about the sports, especially because both the original and new first set of numbers was meant to be a soccer record. I think that it's either a game involving soccer balls, basketballs, and hockey pucks, or a game combining soccer and basketball on regolith surface (to be like hockey). Or, if the assists also mean coopertition, as some people have theorized, I think there would be the three different game pieces from the three sports, which all weigh different amounts, and the robots would have to use them to balance a scale, and if its balanced you get coopertition points. Although it would have to somehow start unbalanced, since otherwise you would get points without doing anything.