The Not So-Secret Secret End-Game

[cgmv123]

Originally Posted by DevenStonow

I'm currently on the road, but is there anything in the manual similar to the past two years that says FIRST can adjust points by X amount prior to Championship? This was in the manual for the last two years for endgames. I don't recall seeing it on my initial readthroughs.

They can adjust the rest of the scoring values instead. (Blue box below Table 3-2)

[Zuelu562]

Originally Posted by DevenStonow

I'm currently on the road, but is there anything in the manual similar to the past two years that says FIRST can adjust points by X amount prior to Championship? This was in the manual for the last two years for endgames. I don't recall seeing it on my initial readthroughs.

It's a blue box. They say they can change the scoring values by up to 10.

Also, in reference to Woody's comment, it may be worthwhile to go read through the Tournament Section this year. There are some changes to Championship Alliance Selection that I think is AWESOME. Fourth team part of the alliance. 3 Robot Lineup that is unchangeable unless there is a timeout. All 4 teams have a rep in the Driver Station

[UnTrustedTruss]

Originally Posted by Zuelu562

It's a blue box. They say they can change the scoring values by up to 10.

There are a lot of fluff points this year. The mobility points are a joke, along with the low goals being worth nearly nothing (without a combo-assist). There are a lot of balancing to do for this not to be a horrible challenge (all the same design, cookie cutter bots). Sadly, I think my tinfoil hat is the only one talking at this point.

[Negative 9]

The game does feel incomplete, but I'm not sure FIRST would go so far as to add a whole new endgame. Also, I don't know if anyone else has pointed this out yet, but the team version drawings definitely aren't as strong as the actual game element. It can't be hanging because the team drawings use wooden planks for the bottom of the truss not aluminum tubing. Unless of course they decide to change the rules AND the team version drawings.

On a different note, it wouldn't be overly difficult for a 60" robot to pop a wheelie so that part of the robot is above the lower 62" part of the truss.

[wasayanwer97]

Just gonna leave this here...



/Sarcasm

[AquaMorph]

I think this might have been an end game that was cut last minute. I feel if the game was changed significantly from kick off that would set a bad precedent. Teams who work hard to get a design quickly would be punished. It would also change people's strategies and make the initial brainstorming worthless.

[Racer26]

Originally Posted by Negative 9

The game does feel incomplete, but I'm not sure FIRST would go so far as to add a whole new endgame. Also, I don't know if anyone else has pointed this out yet, but the team version drawings definitely aren't as strong as the actual game element. It can't be hanging because the team drawings use wooden planks for the bottom of the truss not aluminum tubing. Unless of course they decide to change the rules AND the team version drawings.

On a different note, it wouldn't be overly difficult for a 60" robot to pop a wheelie so that part of the robot is above the lower 62" part of the truss.

The team drawings have in the past left out perfectly viable strategies available with the real field, or been such poor facsimiles that successful teams needed to build something closer to the real field.

See:

2010 Breakaway, Team drawings used 2x4 wood for the vertical supports of the tower. If you wanted to hang from that vertical member (a la 1114 and many others), you had to build something closer to the real field.

2012 Rebound Rumble, Team drawings of the bridge resulted in a bridge that was considerably lighter, and behaved totally differently to the real bridges.

2013 Ultimate Ascent, Team drawings of the pyramid were not really realistic, especially in the corner areas. Corner climbers would have had to build a mockup closer to the real pyramid.

[AlecMataloni]

No.

[Brandon_L]

Originally Posted by UnTrustedTruss

We really knew we were onto something when we looked at the rules about the goalie. The Goalie has little or no purpose in this challenge, with the 6 inch limit playing defense is nearly useless. Along with articulating movement at the other teams shot being counted as a foul (I believe, as we are redirecting their ball). Why would they go into so much detail for such a little feature, that defeats the purpose of the task (no tri-assists with a goalie)?

So, why can't the goalie be the first assist and then go back to goal tending?

[tStano]

Originally Posted by luckof13

Another point:
These lighting trusses can't possibly be very cheep; lots of welded aluminum cross bracing. Why would FIRST buy a bunch of these if they are only to be used for a 'volley ball net'.

Perhaps they were donated. I remember seeing them around arenas in other areas a lot in recent years.

[UnTrustedTruss]

Originally Posted by Brandon_L

So, why can't the goalie be the first assist and then go back to goal tending?

It has to take down its arm, with the defense only robots of late, could take several tens of seconds. Then it has to be able to pass, which I am guessing many teams that use the defense bot as a training tool for younger members (Normal Team: Elders, Defense only: Freshmen learning shop skills) is not going to be able to do well. Having a dedicated goalie is a major detriment, rather you buy into this theory or not.

[BigJ]

I suggest the posters saying that the game feels "incomplete" really sit down with their teams and imagine how the game will be played. There is a lot of underlying depth to this game that I feel some of the posters in this thread aren't really grasping.

I really doubt that an entire new challenge would be added to the game mid-season. Such a move would only tell teams not to trust the game rules in the future.

[DonRotolo]

So far I thought this thread was hilarious, until I realized these folks are serious...

I think what Big J just wrote should be re-read until it is understood.

[JesseK]

The ball is as big as the robot, +/- a few inches in one dimension or another. Adding a climbing element after week 1 (or even after 72 hours) would fundamentally change the design (and potentially the entire strategy) of any launching robot. This would essentially cut the build season short by 1 week and also potentially waste money on the teams who've actually put in much work in the first 72-168 hours of the build season. It would also reward teams who waited for 72 hours before putting in a lot of effort into breaking down the game & designing a robot.

I bet FIRST knows better than to pull shenanigans like that.

Until we see something official, this thread is really just some Nobody inciting speculation.

(edit - man, just a minute too late - durn you Sithbusters!)

[Grim Tuesday]

Originally Posted by BigJ

I suggest the posters saying that the game feels "incomplete" really sit down with their teams and imagine how the game will be played. There is a lot of underlying depth to this game that I feel some of the posters in this thread aren't really grasping.

I really doubt that an entire new challenge would be added to the game mid-season. Such a move would only tell teams not to trust the game rules in the future.

As one of those posters, I do agree with you that this game has much more depth than we give it credit for. I think I understand some of the uses of the far HP's and the low goal.

That said, it just feels like a very 2011 game, not one that follows in the footsteps of the last few years. Maybe they are shaking things up intentionally. If so, I can't wait to see how this game develops!