The Not So-Secret Secret End-Game

[Racer26]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

"Yeah, it'll completely change game strategies and add a whole new system to design, but it won't be THAT bad. It's not like anyone will be done with their strategy rundown and robot capabilities requirements by then, right? It'll be exciting for them to have to do that all over again after we change the game on them!"

Honestly, I think everyone in this thread should back away from the caffeine, get some sleep, and ask themselves tomorrow if they really think the above is something the GDC would actually say.

If you asked the GDC two years ago if they thought someone could design and build robots to play their games effectively in 72 hours, they'd have probably told you that you were crazy.

I think you're being seriously naive if you don't think the GDC would do something to combat the effect that Ri3D's have on the robots we see at competition.

EDIT: Just to be clear, I don't necessarily think this will happen. I think its a significant possibility. There have been enough clues, things that seem just a little out of place. Maybe the changing game hint was intentional. That truss is way stronger than it needs to be for its stated purpose. "Aerial" Assist having essentially no "Aerial" component. The first FIRST game in 14+ years to be devoid of an endgame. Aerial Assist as is, the minimum competitive robot, and the elite competitive robot are very similar in design.

[Oblarg]

Originally Posted by Racer26

I think you're being seriously naive if you don't think the GDC would do something to combat the effect that Ri3D's have on the robots we see at competition.

Not if they, like a significant portion of the FRC community, view that effect as one of the best things to happen to FRC in recent memory.

[Racer26]

Originally Posted by Oblarg

Not if they, like a significant portion of the FRC community, view that effect as one of the best things to happen to FRC in recent memory.

I'm not saying that the raising the floor of competition effect is a bad thing at all. Of course that part of the Ri3D effect is excellent, and should be encouraged.

Ultimate Ascent's game design contributed, and I think Ri3D exacerbated, a limited diversity in 2013 robot designs. I think this is a negative thing.

Changing the game after kickoff would be one way for them to attempt to bring some diversity back, as some teams will choose to not attempt to change their design, while some will.

[1086VEX]

The fact that you have to go back to 1998 before you hit a game that didn't feature an endgame makes me think this is easily a possibility. FIRST is all about replicating a realistic engineering environment and what better way to do that than with a last minute wrench in the system.

[Oblarg]

Originally Posted by 1086VEX

The fact that you have to go back to 1998 before you hit a game that didn't feature an endgame makes me think this is easily a possibility. FIRST is all about replicating a realistic engineering environment and what better way to do that than with a last minute wrench in the system.

The "endgame" in '08 was almost nonexistent (there was no special "finale period," and it netted you a completely negligible number of points).

[Racer26]

Originally Posted by Oblarg

The "endgame" in '08 was almost nonexistent (there was no special "finale period," and it netted you a completely negligible number of points).

Touche.

For those that weren't around:

In 2008, throwing a TRACKBALL over the OVERPASS (HURDLING) was worth 10 pts. The endgame bonus was 12 points for a TRACKBALL being ON the OVERPASS at the end of the MATCH.

In practice, teams just tried firing from a little further back than their usual shooting spot, and hoped it landed on top for the bonus 2 points, but weren't too bothered if instead they scored a HURDLE.

[1086VEX]

Originally Posted by Oblarg

The "endgame" in '08 was almost nonexistent (there was no special "finale period," and it netted you a completely negligible number of points).

And yet there was still one(I said endgames in general not good endgames). the last game where it was "score, score, score till the clock ran out" game was '98.

[Oblarg]

Originally Posted by 1086VEX

And yet there was still one(I said endgames in general not good endgames). the last game where it was "score, score, score till the clock ran out" game was '98.

Pragmatically, though, the endgame has not universally been been an important part of FRC for any significant period of time. I don't think it's all that unbelievable that they decided to do a game without one.

[Racer26]

Originally Posted by Oblarg

Pragmatically, though, the endgame has not universally been been an important part of FRC for any significant period of time. I don't think it's all that unbelievable that they decided to do a game without one.

I don't know. It was pretty important in:

2003
2004
(I don't remember 2005's endgame, as I didn't compete)
2006
2007
2010
2011
2012
2013

[1086VEX]

Originally Posted by Oblarg

Pragmatically, though, the endgame has not universally been been an important part of FRC for any significant period of time. I don't think it's all that unbelievable that they decided to do a game without one.

I don't think it is either, but FIRST knows how to make a competitive exciting game and having an endgame has played a big roll in that since 06-07 minus 2008 as stated before

edit: 05 had a homezone endgame rule where you were awarded points if your robot made it back to that zone

[dellagd]

Well, maybe if... Ya know, I'm just not gonna think about this and focus on the actual game as of now rather than planning for something that may not happen

That being said im inclined to think something will change during the season


We have a robot to build.