The Not So-Secret Secret End-Game

[dubiousSwain]

2 AM here and i am loving the conspiracy theories. keep 'em coming, FIRSTers!

[AndrewPospeshil]

Originally Posted by runneals

I was just looking at the field diagrams (yes, at 12:45 am) to see if they had any thing that stood out in it's design and I found something that made NO SENSE whatsoever at all...

In doing the math, for a human player to retrieve a ball and put it in play, they would need to walk 50 feet to the 'trash can', then another 50 feet back to the field. I can't imagine this being done in a safe manner (watch out for those refs, photographers/media, cables, etc.)...

Likewise, this means that the field reset crew has to have several balls, as the distance between the goals and the balls is all across the field (I couldn't imagine them running back & forth in front of the crowd to deliver the balls to the other side.

Thoughts?

That's another thing that one of my teammates noticed but I didn't put much thought into. I assumed it was just an error or a misprint, but what if it's not? I mean, that's a pretty big error to make, placing the wrong color ball in both slots. At this point I feel like I'm grasping at thin air, but this is just another reason for me to be super suspicious.

I need sleep.

[Incognito]

Originally Posted by AndrewPospeshil

That's another thing that one of my teammates noticed but I didn't put much thought into. I assumed it was just an error or a misprint, but what if it's not? I mean, that's a pretty big error to make, placing the wrong color ball in both slots. At this point I feel like I'm grasping at thin air, but this is just another reason for me to be super suspicious.

I need sleep.

I almost just agreed, but I realized three things that will make sense of this: 1) alliances are scoring at the opposite end of the field that the drivers are driving from; 2) If the ball that was just scored goes to the pedestal behind the alliance wall that it was just scored through, putting the ball back in play here would be putting the ball back in play in the same zone to be able to score instantly again; and 3) There WILL be more than one ball outside of the field, so nobody will need to run back and forth. There would always be a ball ready to be picked up from the pedestal (I believe), and field staff would take the scored ball and return it to the opposite side in an orderly fashion. Taking these things into account, it makes sense that the balls are at the ends that they are: they are correct.

While I'm posting, I have a question to be raised that I haven't seen answered in the manual or anywhere else: When does the pedestal light up? Any references to that are obscure and nothing specific about when it actually lights up is said.

[Zaque]

Originally Posted by runneals

I was just looking at the field diagrams (yes, at 12:45 am) to see if they had any thing that stood out in it's design and I found something that made NO SENSE whatsoever at all...

In doing the math, for a human player to retrieve a ball and put it in play, they would need to walk 50 feet to the 'trash can', then another 50 feet back to the field. I can't imagine this being done in a safe manner (watch out for those refs, photographers/media, cables, etc.)...

Likewise, this means that the field reset crew has to have several balls, as the distance between the goals and the balls is all across the field (I couldn't imagine them running back & forth in front of the crowd to deliver the balls to the other side.

Thoughts?

I think staying up late has gotten to your head. The human player in the alliance station puts the ball into play at his end of the field. The other stations are for the two other human players.

[Wildcats1378]

I think this has some merit to it. I don't really understand why they would put a a huge truss in the middle if all you are doing is lobbing things over it. Why not just a bar? Or a net? why a huge big piece?

I'm hoping it's right, anyway, since this game seems pretty boring to me. basically no obstacles, 2 balls in play at a time, no end game, and a huge reliance on your team mates being able to do something. I feel like it isn't NEARLY as interesting nor exciting to build for as Ultimate Ascent or Rebound Rumble... Maybe they thought that the pyramid endgame was too difficult for rookie teams (which it was!) so they decided to dumb it down a bit to give everyone more of an equal chance?

[Incognito]

Originally Posted by Zaque

I think staying up late has gotten to your head. The human player in the alliance station puts the ball into play at his end of the field. The other stations are for the two other human players.

EDIT: I misunderstood what you were saying. I think you misunderstood what I was explaining, though. The original issue is about the pedestal colors being opposite of what would be intuitive, but it just seems that way because the alliance station colors are not clearly marked. The balls are actually in the correct place.

Scoring opposite of where the drivers are located:

2.2.3 The GOALS
Each ALLIANCE has two (2) HIGH GOALS located above their opponent’s ALLIANCE WALL.

[bduddy]

Originally Posted by Incognito

look again:

You don't put into play the same balls that are scored - the field crew provides the balls, presumably from a stock.

Man, field reset is going to be fun this year... so will refereeing...

As for the Truss, why? Simple: They're cheap, they got/have a bunch from somewhere (haven't they been used in previous fields?), and it needs to be able to not collapse (dangerous!) if it gets hit by a ball launched at it.

[Incognito]

I understand that. What i was trying to say was that the ball that was scored needs to go to the opposite end of the field again before being put on the pedestal. A ball will already be on the pedestal when the ball in play was scored, so as for the human player running to the opposite side of the field to get the ball and back again (as runneals thought), that won't happen. The balls on the pedestals are on the correct side of the field to be put back into play.

[AndrewPospeshil]

Originally Posted by bduddy

As for the Truss, why? Simple: They're cheap

Really? Can you find a price for 25' of 12" truss? I'm not trying to be snarky or whatever, I just can't find a website that gives a definite price for a definite length.

[runneals]

Originally Posted by Zaque

I think staying up late has gotten to your head.

That's not the problem... It's just not having adequate sleep the past few days lol (dreaming of kickoff)! Thank goodness my team doesn't start build season until next Monday (lots of time to get sleep and collect our thoughts)

Anyway, I was looking further into the drawings, and noticed something... Why does the Team Truss (TE-14022) need to have the truss span supports if all it's doing is sitting there? Couldn't it be something they enclosed like their team truss supports? Also I'm wondering why they chose to have the sides enclosed and the top open (as far as the team truss supports go). Turning the design would support more weight if teams were hanging.

Also, I just noticed the text "If the string is GREEN, then the Head Referee has determined that the FIELD is safe for humans." Has this been in the book before? I wouldn't think that balls would be dangerous.

Better get to bed before I can get any more crazier

[dcarr]

Originally Posted by AndrewPospeshil

Really? Can you find a price for 25' of 12" truss? I'm not trying to be snarky or whatever, I just can't find a website that gives a definite price for a definite length.

Got a quote for the exact sections of truss used: $3200 from a large sound/lighting/stage dealer in SoCal. Global Truss brand (was the cheapest of the ones they offered). This is probably typical. This stuff is pro grade, built to last for years and hold tons of heavy, expensive sound and lighting gear, and isn't cheap.

[AndrewPospeshil]

Originally Posted by dcarr

Got a quote for the exact sections of truss used: $3200 from a large sound/lighting/stage dealer in SoCal. Global Truss brand (was the cheapest of the ones they offered). This is probably typical. This stuff is pro grade, built to last for years and hold tons of heavy, expensive sound and lighting gear, and isn't cheap.

Ah, interesting. Now why would first use a field element that costs >$3k to act as nothing more than a barrier for robots to go under and balls to go over?

Goodnight everyone, hope to see some crazy conspiracies when I wake up!

[dcarr]

Originally Posted by AndrewPospeshil

Ah, interesting. Now why would first use a field element that costs >$3k to act as nothing more than a barrier for robots to go under and balls to go over?

Goodnight everyone, hope to see some crazy conspiracies when I wake up!

It's curious. Occam's razor says it's probably for durability, appearance, and possible re-use in future fields.

Thought of buying the real stuff to do double duty as pit trussing but at that price, it's not worth it. Smaller trussing is more space and cost efficient.

[runneals]

Originally Posted by Incognito

I understand that. What i was trying to say was that the ball that was scored needs to go to the opposite end of the field again before being put on the pedestal. A ball will already be on the pedestal when the ball in play was scored, so as for the human player running to the opposite side of the field to get the ball and back again (as runneals thought), that won't happen. The balls on the pedestals are on the correct side of the field to be put back into play.

I may be half brain dead, but it looks like the human player area is down near the respective alliance's goal (so they still would have to walk that 100ft to/from if they wanted to use their human player area. *See figure 2-15

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by runneals

I may be half brain dead, but it looks like the human player area is down near the respective alliance's goal (so they still would have to walk that 100ft to/from if they wanted to use their human player area. *See figure 2-15

There are 3 HP zones. 1 for the inbounder that is behind the driver's station and wraps around the side of the field and extends a short distance down the side of the field. There are also 2 HP zones on the side of the field at near your team's goals. No one can leave their zone once the match starts. So the in-bounder only has to walk about 15 feet from the pedestal to the location that they can in-bound the ball. Once they have in-bounded the ball they can return to the pedestal. Of course they could stay at the side of the field until the ball has left the first zone however there is a possibility that the ball could go out of bounds on the other side of the field so it is likely in their best interest to return to near the pedestal so they have an equal distance to either side of the field.

So the total distance the HP needs to walk is from the in-bound area to the pedestal and back, about 30' and only half of that needs to be done after the pedestal lights up.

With 3 balls per alliance, one in play on the field and two out of play there should rarely be a case where there should not be a problem of not having a ball on the pedestal when needed.

I do see a need for say 4 ball handlers and they could potentially walk a couple of miles over the length of the competition.