Is throwing worth it ?

[mitchklong]

Im trying to decide if adding a throw ability really buys that much.

Throwing can get you
Truss points (10)
Possibly catch points (10)
high goal points (9 more)

But throwing also:
causes the ball to bounce. That makes it more difficult to control than rolling.
risks ejecting the ball from the field.
can easily miss high goal and have to reshoot
relatively challenging technically


So..to throw or not to throw. That is my question.

[who716]

How about having a thrower that is also your shooter

[Zuelu562]

Throwing in a cycle can generate 20 points more than what just roll passes do just by the truss and catch bonuses. Add on the additional 9 from scoring high, and you have compelling enough reason for me. Also, a bouncing ball isn't really that hard to manage if you have some imagination. Get it to the wall or have a guide system to control it.

[engunneer]

I consider the truss pass (without catch) to be worth +20, since it comes with an assist (almost certainly). With the catch, it is worth 10 or 20 more than a normal assist.

Accurate throwing is going to be key for catching.

[RRLedford]

It all boils down to what the the level of impact is on increasing the cycle times when completing over truss shots & high goal scoring shots.

This then must be compared to the minimum cycle times that an efficient 31 point basic 3-assist with low goal score can give.

I can easily see the efficiently done 31 point cycles being completed almost twice as fast as an average 50 point cycle with both over truss done (no catch) and high goal scored.

Even assuming 100% success rate on over truss shooting, relinquishing ball possession with significant energy imparted to balls, and then perhaps having to contend with better positioned, more nimble than you defender blocking your effort to retrieve and reload the balls for the high goal shot seems like an especially risky time waster.

Then there is the issue of what percent of what goal shots can actually be successful on 1st try? Even at 90% accuracy this means you only gain ~8 points over the low goal (assuming 100% for them), and so in a five cycle match this would average out at only ~40 extra points, but if the the extra time investment needed, compared to low goal scoring, to reach that level of accuracy on the high goal, is only about 5 seconds per cycle, then the competition might nearly complete one more 31 point cycle and almost nullify the high goal scoring advantage.

So, if you seek to accomplish both the over truss shot and the high goal shot as your ideal strategy for each cycle, I conclude that that combination will ultimately prove more detrimental than advantageous for your final score.
This will be more the case with even an average amount of basic defense against you.

My advice would be to only attempt one or the other. and if high goal accuracy is good, that would be the one to do. The truss shot is just too big of a cycle time waster without having a consistent catch to add 10 more points and eliminate the ball chasing time waste. So, with the difficulty of executing the ball catch, the over truss shot seems like a bad idea.

Our team will only attempt high goal shots in both auto & tele of we can reach the 90+% accuracy level. We are also looking at how also to have an even more certain alternate option for low goal scoring, so we can go either way in matches where there is too much high goal shooting defense happening.

-Dick Ledford

[geomapguy]

Originally Posted by mitchklong

Throwing can get you
Truss points (10)
Possibly catch points (10)
high goal points (9 more)

Might want to read the rules. High goal scores are clearly 10 points.

Base point values are as follows:
LOW GOAL 1
HIGH GOAL 10
CATCH 10
TRUSS 10

[EricH]

Originally Posted by geomapguy

Might want to read the rules. High goal scores are clearly 10 points.

He said 9 more. The implication is that if you can get the low goals (and if you can't get those, you need a new robot, and quick!), throwing only nets an additional 9 on top of the 1 for the low goal that anybody can get.


In other words, the box-on-wheels can get assist and low-goal points. A throwing robot can add in the truss points, the high-goal points, and possibly the catch points, as well as picking up assists and low goals.

[Racer26]

Originally Posted by geomapguy

Might want to read the rules. High goal scores are clearly 10 points.

Yes... And scoring the BALL in the high goal instead of the low goal is a net gain of +9 points.

[Kevin Sevcik]

The high goals are a lot more difficult to defend than the low goals. Low goals could be fairly locked down by two defense bots. So a high, defense, defense alliance could probably take down a low, low, low alliance.

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by mitchklong

So..to throw or not to throw. That is my question.

First, consider if the winners on Einstein in 4 months will be able to throw or not.

Second, realistically, consider whether your team can build a mechanism to do that or not.

Your answers determine the answer to the OP

[redsox11]

Another thing to take into consideration is that scoring in the low goals isn't as simple as just pushing it in, there are 7 inches between the bottom of the low goal opening and the field.

[Team3266Spencer]

Originally Posted by redsox11

Another thing to take into consideration is that scoring in the low goals isn't as simple as just pushing it in, there are 7 inches between the bottom of the low goal opening and the field.

But the ball has a 12 inch radius, so I imagine it wouldn't be that difficult to push in.

[thinker&planner]

We discussed this as a team and I believe came to the conclusion that even if we had a reliable shooter, we would only use it for autonomous and truss points, unless someone is blocking both of the low goals.

The only advantages:
Autonomous points
If a team can successfully block the low goals for an entire match and
nobody on your team has the capability to shoot high, it comes down to the
autonomous points.

The disadvantages:
Loss of control, time wasted trying to recover the ball
Missed shots, leading to ^^
Yet another system to be designed (although what else would we spend our
time on?)

Overall, we resolved to prototype a shooter/thrower, and if our prototypes were semi-successful, we would keep it as an option.

[Sean Raia]

If you have the resources you should certainly attempt to throw.

If not, try being the best catcher you can be. Are you a lineman, a wide reciever, or the quarterback? That mostly depends on how youre built. And I mean that about the robot as much as I do the team.

I love the positional designs this game requires.

[Zebra_Fact_Man]

Something not explicitly stated in the rules, but I feel like it works against the spirit of the game (and expect a Q&A regarding it) is whether a robot can throw a ball over the Truss and catch it themselves.

Effectively kills a "Teamwork" element of this game, but if you get some space, I feel like it could be an easier 20pt bonus than trying to coordinate throwing and catching with 2 different robots.

If it ultimately IS legal, than throwing is definitely worth it. If not, unless you plan to shoot for 10's, I'd say NO.