The Not So-Secret Secret End-Game

[bugynerd]

Did I miss something, or was there actually no release of the Encryption Code in the Kickoff Broadcast?

Did I miss something, or was there actually no close to the Kickoff Broadcast, in the form of a few "good luck teams" words from Dean, Woodie, and Don?

[RufflesRidge]

Originally Posted by bugynerd

Did I miss something, or was there actually no release of the Encryption Code in the Kickoff Broadcast?

Did I miss something, or was there actually no close to the Kickoff Broadcast, in the form of a few "good luck teams" words from Dean, Woodie, and Don?

You and/or your kickoff missed something (the end of the broadcast). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWb2...PZcMFF3#t=1722

[fb39ca4]

Originally Posted by dubiousSwain

A volleyball net would absorb the force of a ball perfectly fine...

But it would be worse if a robot got entangled in it, which would likely tear the net. A truss, on the other hand, while still allowing the robot to get entangled, would not break.

[ninjosh97]

Just something else I found.
According to R18, you can carry 30lbs of robot parts not in the bag.
Hasn't it been 20lbs in previous years?
Maybe they expect us to need to bring more.

[mrnoble]

Originally Posted by ninjosh97

Just something else I found.
According to R18, you can carry 30lbs of robot parts not in the bag.
Hasn't it been 20lbs in previous years?
Maybe they expect us to need to bring more.

No, that is not correct. It's been 30 lbs.

[ninjosh97]

Originally Posted by mrnoble

No, that is not correct. It's been 30 lbs.

Ah ok, wasn't sure.
Thanks for the clarification. :-)

[mrnoble]

I feel the need to point out that thinking the GDC might add another game element is not akin to "conspiracy theory", as in Area 51 aliens, vaccinations=autism, and any of the twisty ways of discovering a Water Game. It is much more like adding bonds to your stock portfolio when Ben Bernanke hints that interest rates might be allowed to rise. If anyone is actually building for a game that doesn't exist based on hints that don't say much (if anything) about what that game might be, they are foolish. I don't think there is actually anyone doing that. What I think SHOULD be done is, plan for the game as it is now, and leave room in your thinking and designs for changes that might occur. Hedge your bets.

I think I'll leave this one alone for a while now. If I'm correct, and there is more to be revealed, well, we'll all see it sooner or later. If I'm wrong, then that's fine too, and no one will have to adjust. Either way, it doesn't make much difference to keep looking for more and more obscure (or nonexistent) clues, and keep debating points of conjecture. The idea is clearly out there now. Let's just wait and see what happens.

[MooreteP]

While showing the animation last night to a casual observer of FIRST challenges, their initial reaction as the animation started was: "oh, is it volleyball this year?"

Volleyball also has assists. Imagine an endgame where extra points were awarded for each successive throw and catch over the truss during the last 15 seconds. Or even a bonus multiplier (1.1x, 1.2x, 1.3x) that increased for each successful volley as long as the ball never hit the floor.

It would not require any new ideas or designs that hadn't been considered or were already being created.

It would have a crowd pleasing excitement that would improve this game.

[Racer26]

Originally Posted by MooreteP

While showing the animation last night to a casual observer of FIRST challenges, their initial reaction as the animation started was: "oh, is it volleyball this year?"

Volleyball also has assists. Imagine an endgame where extra points were awarded for each successive throw and catch over the truss during the last 15 seconds. Or even a bonus multiplier (1.1x, 1.2x, 1.3x) that increased for each successful volley as long as the ball never hit the floor.

It would not require any new ideas or designs that hadn't been considered or were already being created.

It would have a crowd pleasing excitement that would improve this game.

Neat idea.

[shades23]

As of right now the rules state that therenis no "grabbing, grasping etc. With field elements" so I think that it is very wishful thinking that the rules will change within the six weeks ...that seems to be a huge change for a mid season rule change. But that is just me.. also historically looking back when gas FIRST ever changed the game that much.. usually they are small changes like last year they said there is no throwing white frisbees.. but all in all I suppose it is quite suspicious that there is a truss that can hold ~1800 pounds ...why woud it hold 1800 lbs. When 6 robots weigh about 900 lbs ..

[acrease77]

Originally Posted by UnTrustedTruss

Aerial Assist is one of the most technically boring challenges we have had so far, and with the smooth gradient of difficulty each year as the league matures. This simply does not make sense, it is clear there is something missing.
...
No major shifts in origination, challenge, or league size. It is weird that this would be mentioned if there was not something further to back this up.
...
However, this is not some weak little rope
...

I believe that there is a pretty significant challenge, that would get you approximately the same amount of points as an end game would, that everyone is missing.

First off, it has been mentioned that the truss can support a lot of weight and they could have just used a rope. A rope or even a 30 foot long metal bar would end up sagging and robots would get caught in it, nevermind that it needs to support cycle lights and posts. It seems pretty easy to put together and transport given any situation and I feel it is a guarantee that a robot will not accidentally break the truss; last year some teams had some issues when the pyramid slightly lifted off the floor.

All this in mind, There is a huge, very challenging, yet very worth it part of the game that people aren't putting their full thought into, and that is passing and catching a ball over the truss. If two robots had the ability to pass and catch over the truss for EVERY cycle, and lets say that each cycle of pedestal->HP->robot zone 1 ->robot zone 2->robot zone 3 lasts about 30 seconds, that's around 4 cycles per match. If the ball goes over the truss, that's another 40 points. If the ball goes over the truss AND IS CAUGHT, that's 80 points, the equivalent of 2 3-assist cycles, and given this game, a proper "end game" score, if the game were to have one.

The pass-and-catch, I feel, is the equivalent of the end game that seems to be lacking from the game, and I think that a lot of people are underestimating how hard it will be to pass a ball from robot to robot, with little knowledge of how far/high alliance members throw their balls and how good they are at catching. As this game is centered around communication and cooperation between teams, I think this will require a ton of effort and communication between all alliance partners to make work, and a lot of testing and practice beforehand, as some people did for the double or triple balance in 2012. That is the spirit of this game, assisting one another, and so I don't believe there will be another catch (pun intended), but I do think passing and catching will be harder than we think.

That's why I think it would be a pretty idea good to coordinate with teams in your area to practice with each others robots during build season. This isn't about building one robot that can do everything anymore, teams will really need to cooperate and know how to work together more than ever.

[Racer26]

Originally Posted by shades23

As of right now the rules state that therenis no "grabbing, grasping etc. With field elements" so I think that it is very wishful thinking that the rules will change within the six weeks ...that seems to be a huge change for a mid season rule change. But that is just me.. also historically looking back when gas FIRST ever changed the game that much.. usually they are small changes like last year they said there is no throwing white frisbees.. but all in all I suppose it is quite suspicious that there is a truss that can hold ~1800 pounds ...why woud it hold 1800 lbs. When 6 robots weigh about 900 lbs ..

There is a BIG difference between static load bearing capacity and dynamic load bearing capacity. Typically you should double or triple the load bearing capacity for a dynamic load. FIRST Robots? Better believe they're a dynamic load.

[runneals]

Originally Posted by GearsOfFury

My opinion on truss strength / durability and people feeling it's unnecessary: I think people are overlooking the fact that there will be 3 pound balls shot at the truss at high velocity, multiple times per game. The GDC is probably just trying to insure the thing doesn't break or fall over when all those shots fail to clear the truss. A rope or simple bar wouldn't do it. Plus as some have pointed out it looks like standard lighting rigging that they have plenty of experience with and access to.

Looking at how they designed the team on (the truss supports going horizontal, instead of vertical or even just a 12x12 box) support your thought about the 3 pound balls... but wouldn't not making them go vertical just sag the wood?

[JamesTerm]

Originally Posted by Ido_Wolf

Personally I'd love it if FIRST and the GDC tried to emulate a real-life situation where you as an engineer are forced to replan your design because of a new restriction or requirement. Then again, if I were a student in this situation, the reaction would have probably been a little different

In regards to real-life situation where you are forced to replan your design...
This is certainly true for a software engineer, but is it true for a mechanical engineer? From what I've heard ME tend to design as simple as possible which means to avoid creating something that is expandable (e.g. modular) to be something else. This question is one I've been in conflict struggling with to understand... is it common for ME to have to change designs late in the design phase? or even during implementation?

[Sean Raia]

I laugh as I read people calling this game boring, underwhelming, etc.
Its WAY too early to call that.

But yes I think this will be expanded upon. NOT with a hanging challenge.