Team UPDATE - 2014-01-10

[DampRobot]

Originally Posted by DevenStonow

Good solution, the best way, to do this.

Agreed. This season is 2/2 in terms of good team updates so far!

[MikeE]

Great solution for a ball stuck during teleop.

However I'm not sure I understand what this means at the end of autonomous, likely for balls "stuck" in a non-moving robot.
More interestingly how about two balls stuck in multiple non-moving robots?

[PVCpirate]

Originally Posted by MikeE

Great solution for a ball stuck during teleop.

However I'm not sure I understand what this means at the end of autonomous, likely for balls "stuck" in a non-moving robot.
More interestingly how about two balls stuck in multiple non-moving robots?

I think FIRST has accounted for the occasional failure or communication error with this update. The teams now have to hold up their end of the bargain, and design their robots so this does not happen often.

[Iaquinto.Joe]

pertaining to the opposing alliance getting your ball stuck: "If the stuck BALL is freed, that ball will be considered FIELD debris."

Is this ball going to be handled the same way as a dead ball?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Iaquinto.Joe

pertaining to the opposing alliance getting your ball stuck: "If the stuck BALL is freed, that ball will be considered FIELD debris."

Is this ball going to be handled the same way as a dead ball?

Field debris: Better known as out of play permanently. See Section 3.1.2.

[Joe Ross]

It appears that the team update was revised. Here's the new stuff:

General Rules
G12

An ALLIANCE may not POSSESS their opponent’s BALLS. The following criteria define POSSESSION :

“carrying” (moving while supporting BALLS in or on the ROBOT),
“herding” (repeated pushing or bumping),
“launching” (impelling BALLS to a desired location or direction), and
“trapping” (overt isolation or holding one or more BALLS against a FIELD element or ROBOT in an attempt to shield them).


Violation: TECHNICAL FOUL per instance. If extended, another TECHNICAL FOUL. If strategic, RED CARD for the ALLIANCE.


Motors & Actuators
R29

The only motors and actuators permitted on 2014 FRC ROBOTS include the following:

Table 4-1: Legal Motors
Add Banebots M7-RS775-12 / RS775WC-8514

It also looks like the classmate windows activation info was deleted.

[PayneTrain]

Violation: TECHNICAL FOUL per instance. If extended, another TECHNICAL FOUL. If strategic, RED CARD for the ALLIANCE.

Sure hope they come back and clarify saying that traditional red card rules apply in that instance (offender carded in qualifiers, alliances in elimination) because that could be a real gem-of-a way of tanking an alliance partner you are randomly matched with.

[Rangel]

So by the terms of possession, if the robot is immobile with an opponents ball, is it considered possession since the robot is not moving? If it is considered possession, then that means an immobile robot with a ball on an allied robot is also considered possession meaning any robot, mobile or not, that is fully supporting a ball is considered in possession of the ball. Unless of course an immobile robot with a ball on it is not considered possession. Right?

[Caleb Sykes]

Originally Posted by Rangel(kf7fdb)

So by the terms of possession, if the robot is immobile with an opponents ball, is it considered possession since the robot is not moving? If it is considered possession, then that means an immobile robot with a ball on an allied robot is also considered possession meaning any robot, mobile or not, that is fully supporting a ball is considered in possession of the ball. Unless of course an immobile robot with a ball on it is not considered possession. Right?

I just made a thread for this very topic not 5 hours ago:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...hreadid=124434

[NyrdieBunny]

if the alliance's ball gets stuck on the truss, is there a penalty?

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by AllenGregoryIV

I have learned not to count a lot of things out in FRC. I didn't think a sub 10 sec climb was possible last year but the Poofs proved that to be incorrect. I can conceive of a strong enough vacuum system that could do this.

This is a totally different scenario. Basic math could be done to show that a system using even just a few CIM motors would be able to lift quickly enough for a ten second climb. This is something you essentially can objectively prove *is* possible. The question mark was whether or not a team could tune a system to transition between layers smoothly and quickly.

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

I saw a video the other day of a team holding a ball with a shop vac. It seemed pretty stable to me, and wouldn't violate the 6" diameter cylinder rule. Also, a 6" diameter cylinder isn't 36 square inches in cross section. That would be the area for a square cross section 6" per side, and as the diagonal of such a square would be longer than 6", it would be illegal per R3. The largest cross section available is about 28 inches, per the area formulae for a circle, pi*r^2.

Okay, so 27*pi square inches. I've seen vacuum setups work okay, but I haven't seen any using a 6" diameter circle that are strong enough to deflect a ball being shot into it. And honestly, if someone gets a ball up there onto their scoring mechanism *and* wastes the alliance's "dead ball" card on their blocker, I think they've earned the right to attempt to block a shot. I'd be more inclined to believe a 12" diameter suction cup with a well designed, high powered impeller could do it, but I don't see it here.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

Sure hope they come back and clarify saying that traditional red card rules apply in that instance (offender carded in qualifiers, alliances in elimination) because that could be a real gem-of-a way of tanking an alliance partner you are randomly matched with.

I think it's a way of ensuring that you keep your partners off of your opponents' ball.

If your own is stuck, you declare dead ball, the ball is dead, assists are reset, and you get a new ball--and to be clarified, you might get goal points from it if it comes free.

If your opponents' is stuck in you, you get 100 points in fouls, possibility of an alliance red card...AND they get a fresh cycle! Translation, if you know a partner has a tendency to chase and possess the wrong ball, keep them far, far away from the opponents' ball, by using the E-stop if you have to!

[tkell274]

Originally Posted by EricH

If your opponents' is stuck in you, you get 100 points in fouls, possibility of an alliance red card...AND they get a fresh cycle! Translation, if you know a partner has a tendency to chase and possess the wrong ball, keep them far, far away from the opponents' ball, by using the E-stop if you have to!

While I do agree that you would want to keep your partner as far away as possible to stop them from incurring such large penalties, you cannot just go around e-stopping teams for stuff like that because one it can damage their robot and two only the team controlling the robot or the FTA has the right to hit a teams e-stop. If it becomes an issue during the match you should discuss it with that team and tell them to stay out of the way for the remainder of the match. If it seems intentional that they are incurring penalties talk to the field officials about it.

[cadandcookies]

Originally Posted by tkell274

While I do agree that you would want to keep your partner as far away as possible to stop them from incurring such large penalties, you cannot just go around e-stopping teams for stuff like that because one it can damage their robot and two only the team controlling the robot or the FTA has the right to hit a teams e-stop. If it becomes an issue during the match you should discuss it with that team and tell them to stay out of the way for the remainder of the match. If it seems intentional that they are incurring penalties talk to the field officials about it.

Agreed. E-stopping (or trying to e-stop) another team's robot seems to me like a nuclear option.

I know teams like to win, but common courtesy is another thing.

That being said, I sincerely doubt anyone would actually do this-- aside from the moral aspect, it may also be a tad difficult to get at your parters' e-stop buttons, considering they aren't in your alliance station.