Vision target location

[billbo911]

Originally Posted by goofy173

For the vertical vision target. How far is it from the left edge of the poly goal assembly to the left edge of the vision target? (or right, doesn't matter)

I don't see numbers on the field prints

Watch the video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-vZmd3Vu9g&list=PLZT9pIgNOV6bScUlOhxxejG_rqTbhru_5& feature=c4-overview-vl and pay close attention to the commentary between 35 seconds and 1 minute. All the details are there.

EDIT: Fixed broken link.

[Bruceb]

link to video is broken

[Bruceb]

I think you can get the dimensions from this:
There are four (4) VISION TARGETS on each end of the FIELD: two (2) dynamic VISION TARGETS and two (2) static
VISION TARGETS. There is one (1) dynamic VISION TARGET located above each LOW GOAL. Each dynamic
VISION TARGET is located behind the polycarbonate panel on the ALLIANCE WALL. The dynamic VISION TARGET
is horizontal and begins 5 ft. 8 in. above the FIELD carpet, is centered over the LOW GOAL, and consists of a panel
with one (1) 4 in. wide, 1 ft. 11 ½ in. long strip of retro-reflective material (3M 8830 Silver Marking Film) adhered
horizontally along the length of the panel with a 2 in. black ABS plastic border surrounding the retro-reflective material.
The dynamic VISION TARGET is actuated to show the retro-reflective material when its corresponding HIGH and LOW
GOAL are HOT. It will rotate to hide the retro-reflective material (pointing it upwards) when its corresponding HIGH and
LOW GOAL are not HOT. Both of these conditions are shown in Figure 2-9.
The static VISION TARGET is mounted such that half is behind the polycarbonate sheet above the LOW GOAL and
half is behind the acrylic panel of the PLAYER STATION. It uses vertical reflectors which are located above the inside
edge of the LOW GOAL. The vertical reflector consists of a 4 in. wide, 2 ft. 8 in. tall stripe of retro-reflective material
bordered by 2 in. wide black gaffers tape on the left and right sides. The vertical reflectors begin 3 ft. 1 ½ in. above the
FIELD carpet.

[otherguy]

Originally Posted by Bruceb

I think you can get the dimensions from this:

From that information, what is the horizontal distance between the two targets? And is that inclusive of the black border surrounding the reflective material?

[Pretzel]

There should be enough at least for the horizontal strip.
The horizontal one "begins 5 ft. 8 in. above the FIELD carpet, is centered over the LOW GOAL, and consists of a panel with one (1) 4 in. wide, 1 ft. 11 ½ in. long strip of retro-reflective material (3M 8830 Silver Marking Film) adhered
horizontally"

This tells you that it is centered above the 2 ft. 8 1/2 in low goal, which is placed in the very corner of the field (its outside edge is in line with the outside edge of the alliance station). Centering a 1 ft 11 1/2 in piece of tape over that low goal would then require you to be .375 ft from the wall (subtract the width of the tape from the width of the goal then divide by two). This translates to 4.5 in from the edge of the alliance station where the high goals are mounted and 5 ft 8 in above the ground, as stated in the manual.

As to the vertically oriented static vision target:
"The static VISION TARGET is mounted such that half is behind the polycarbonate sheet above the LOW GOAL and half is behind the acrylic panel of the PLAYER STATION. It uses vertical reflectors which are located above the inside edge of the LOW GOAL. The vertical reflector consists of a 4 in. wide, 2 ft. 8 in. tall stripe of retro-reflective material bordered by 2 in. wide black gaffers tape on the left and right sides. The vertical reflectors begin 3 ft. 1 ½ in. above the FIELD carpet."

The way I interpret this while looking at the picture is that the center of that reflective tape should be at the inside edge of the low goal. To double check it though you could see what the measurement is from the edge of the alliance station to the start of the acrylic since it states that it is mounted such that half of it is on the polycarb above the low goal and half of it is on the acrylic in front of the drivers.

[Bruceb]

So, you have the height above the carpet.

The vertical reflectors begin 3 ft. 1 ½ in. above the
FIELD carpet.

You have it's dimensions.

a 4 in. wide, 2 ft. 8 in. tall stripe of retro-reflective material
bordered by 2 in. wide black gaffers tape on the left and right sides

You have it's location relative to another field element.

half is behind the polycarbonate sheet above the LOW GOAL and
half is behind the acrylic panel of the PLAYER STATION

and the low goal, per the drawings is 36.75 inch wide.

[otherguy]

Originally Posted by Bruceb

...You have it's location relative to another field element.

half is behind the polycarbonate sheet above the LOW GOAL and
half is behind the acrylic panel of the PLAYER STATION...

That's great and all... but there's nothing available to teams which defines the size of the poly sheet or acrylic panel, or their position relative to anything else on the field.

Try to come up with an actual numeric value. If you find an answer, please share. The closest thing to actually define this information is the field tour video linked previously, but it's not clear exactly what they mean by what they say. (as I mentioned in my previous post)

Originally Posted by Bruceb

...and the low goal, per the drawings is 36.75 inch wide.

For the record, the low goal is 36" wide. It's 36.75" tall. See page 4 of the low goal drawing. Unfortunately the cube faces aren't labeled.

Originally Posted by Pretzel

To double check it though you could see what the measurement is from the edge of the alliance station to the start of the acrylic since it states that it is mounted such that half of it is on the polycarb above the low goal and half of it is on the acrylic in front of the drivers.

This dimension isn't available in any materials provided to teams by FIRST. If you have come a cross it, please share.

[Pretzel]

Originally Posted by otherguy

This dimension isn't available in any materials provided to teams by FIRST. If you have come a cross it, please share.

Figure 2-9 shows it being the same width as the low goal, and the polycarbonate is specifically referred to as being above the low goal. This would lead me to believe that it is the same width as the low goal, or 2 ft 8 1/2 in + the width of the material that makes up the low goal. I could be wrong on my interpretation, but I believe this to be correct.

[otherguy]

Originally Posted by Pretzel

Figure 2-9 shows it being the same width as the low goal, and the polycarbonate is specifically referred to as being above the low goal. This would lead me to believe that it is the same width as the low goal, or 2 ft 8 1/2 in + the width of the material that makes up the low goal. I could be wrong on my interpretation, but I believe this to be correct.

There are no dimensions on Figure 2-9, nor are the acrylic/polycarb sheets identified. Its just a picture of the wall. There's no guarantee it's dimensionally accurate. You had to make the assumption that the poly sheet is the same width as the low goal, but there's nothing in the picture or the text that states that as fact.

I have also come up with a number, which I believe to be correct, based on how I've interpreted the information provided by FIRST (I followed a different path than you've outlined). It's not a matter of just getting an answer though, I want the right answer. Which is why the questions were posted to the Q&A.

[goofy173]

The video shows a gap between the right edge of the left-lower goal, and the center line of the reflective strip. There is no indication anywhere as to what that distance is.

[otherguy]

Got an answer, see team update 2014-01-21.

Specifically page 4 of FE-00037_RevA.pdf

[NotInControl]

I took a screen shot of the PDF for everyones ease. See the posted image for the final locations of the vision target.

Now that we know where the targets are, back to our Snow Day!

hope this helps,
Kevin

[goofy173]

Thanks for that! I printed it and will give it to our goal builder mentor tonight.

[otherguy]

I posted two questions to the q&a last week: q157 and q158.
Sorry for the excessive use of abbreviations, was struggling to stay within character limits.

I agree that there isn't enough information in the manual, any of the drawings, or the video to relate the targets to one another. Particularly in the horizontal dimension.

The video defines the vertical targets position relative to the "inside edge" of the low goal. Does that mean the face of the cube furthest from the field perimeter, or does it mean the edge of the opening in the cube through which you could score a ball. I interpreted the later, but others on my team disagree.

Also, are the measurements provided relative to the vision target's reflective material, or the black border which surrounds it? The game manual makes it sound like the black border is considered part of the target, so my hunch is the later, but this isn't an element of the field I want to approximate. I want it to be as accurately replicated as possible. This should be a relatively easy set of information for FIRST to provide, the game manual has all but one dimension defined already.