A Coach for the Alliance - The Supercoach

[ttldomination]

In the past couple of years, I've often wondered if an alliance wide coach, a person I've deemed as the supercoach, would be a beneficial role. More specifically, the supercoach is the person who would control the alliance as a whole and direct teams with respect to a predetermined strategy.

Considering this year's game, I think the supercoach is more relevant than ever. With robots having quite a few possible positions, tasks, and goals (each of which can change as quickly as a ball changes possession) alliances are going to need to coordinate on an unprecedented level to ensure that each robot is exactly where it's needed.

Two minutes go by fast, so more than likely, the supercoach would be behind all three drive teams either yelling out movements or hurrying over to a coach/team to give them specific instructions.

There are some questions that arise from this:
Where does the supercoach fit into a drive teams?
Well, this year's game only requires two human players (one in the far zone and one delivering balls from the pedestal to the field). The supercoach's team would have to use their human player as their acting-coach.

Is this viable during qualifications?
Perhaps not. In qualifications you have to contend with (a) explaining the concept to other teams, (b) trusting that a good supercoach is picked, (c) trusting that the teams on your alliance are willing to orders from a supercoach, or (d) teams not having a human player capable of coaching. Any combination of these four issues could mean that the alliance isn't a good fit for a supercoach. However, qualifications would be a good test run/proof of concept for supercoaching.

Just a thought,
- Sunny G.

[ghostmachine360]

Agreed that a supercoach would be something beneficial with this year's game. I would say another thing to consider if taking this concept to qualifications would be if the other teams can understand & follow-though expediently and correctly on audibles that the supercoach calls. Also, depending on how you set up these alliances with the supercoach, you may have to change up how plays are relayed from match-to-match. In the case where you are allied with one team 1 match, and then meet them again during quals/elims on the other side of the glass, you have to make sure that the element of surprise is still on your side when play-calling.

[gpetilli]

I like the concept. Minor clarification - there are three human player locations - one at the pedestal, and one on either side of the far field to receive ejected balls to inbound. There is no human player available to "super coach"

that said, during qualifiers the teams will need to negotiate which team's coach will act as super coach. During eliminations it is simpler; it would be the highest seeded team's coach as the recognized team captain.

[M.O'Reilly]

An alliance would benefit from a "supercoach" only if they were the only coach in the alliance. 1 ball, 1 coach makes a little sense. Theoretically though, a supercoach should exist already: the top seed of the alliance would command or defer to another coach with more experience and/or more scouting data on hand. Any alliance with three coaches with three strategies is doomed.

[XaulZan11]

Originally Posted by gpetilli

I like the concept. Minor clarification - there are three human player locations - one at the pedestal, and one on either side of the far field to receive ejected balls to inbound. There is no human player available to "super coach"

Is there anything that says you are required to place human players at each location?

[ttldomination]

Originally Posted by XaulZan11

Is there anything that says you are required to place human players at each location?

Originally Posted by gpetilli

I like the concept. Minor clarification - there are three human player locations - one at the pedestal, and one on either side of the far field to receive ejected balls to inbound. There is no human player available to "super coach" ...

G8 states that human players can start in the zones or behind the white line. If an alliance is opting to run the supercoach, one of their human player zones would be empty.

- Sunny G.

[gpetilli]

Originally Posted by ttldomination

G8 states that human players can start in the zones or behind the white line. If an alliance is opting to run the supercoach, one of their human player zones would be empty.

- Sunny G.

leaving a HP zone empty could delay putting a ball back in play if the ref has to go back to the drivers station. Rule G9 allows for 1 coach, 2 drivers and 1 human player per team. Why would you allocate a human player to be a supercoach when you have three coaches doing nothing?

[bkahl]

I think you will see a lot of this "supercoach" strategy during Elims at CMP. With the new rule regarding 4 alliances, the fourth alliance can have a representative behind the glass, giving the alliance a fourth coach.

[ttldomination]

Originally Posted by gpetilli

leaving a HP zone empty could delay putting a ball back in play if the ref has to go back to the drivers station. Rule G9 allows for 1 coach, 2 drivers and 1 human player per team. Why would you allocate a human player to be a supercoach when you have three coaches doing nothing?

Great teams rely on great drive teams, which rely on great coaches. If you are under the opinion that the three coaches are 'doing nothing', then perhaps you do not fully understand the importance of coaches.

The intent is not to necessarily make the human player the supercoach, but rather pull a human player to fill a missing coach position.

As far as "delaying putting a ball back into play," it's a valid concern. I personally don't think that balls will go out of play all too often (maybe once every handful of matches), but if it becomes a common occurrence, the alliance would have to carefully consider how/whether to assign a supercoach.

- Sunny G.

[WaterClaw]

in reference to the OP;

My only concern with super coaches is teams fighting over who would have ultimate control. During the heat of the moment, everyone has very jacked up opinions of their abilities and often are far less capable than they think they are.

Also, with one of the coaches being the super coach you run the risk of your drive team being forced to handle the environments of the game all on they're own and hence taxing their focus on their specified tasks. You would need to have a highly competent drive team and an even more competent commander to coordinate all three teams in the alliance at once.

[WaterClaw]

Originally Posted by gpetilli

I like the concept. Minor clarification - there are three human player locations - one at the pedestal, and one on either side of the far field to receive ejected balls to inbound. There is no human player available to "super coach"

that said, during qualifiers the teams will need to negotiate which team's coach will act as super coach. During eliminations it is simpler; it would be the highest seeded team's coach as the recognized team captain.

I think one of the coaches would have to manage all three in coordinating which puts an alarming amount of pressure on the drivers of the team short the coach.

[Caleb Sykes]

It will be interesting to see if any teams use their secondary driver as a "temporary human player". Many robot designs will probably allow for single-driver control when not dealing with the ball. This will leave some secondary drivers inactive for long periods of time. If an alliance really wanted both a "supercoach" and a human player in each of the far zones, it would not be unrealistic for them to use a driver who is not doing anything at the moment to inbound the ball. This would free up the human player in the alliance station to be the supercoach for the whole match.

EDIT: After re-reading the relevant sections of the manual, I think that the "driver becomes temporary human player" is probably just a loophole. Then again, maybe not since G34 addresses only coaches and not drivers. In any case, I am going to make sure that my team's secondary driver has at least a little experience passing the ball to our robot.

[gpetilli]

Originally Posted by inkling16

It will be interesting to see if any teams use their secondary driver as a "temporary human player". Many robot designs will probably allow for single-driver control when not dealing with the ball. This will leave some secondary drivers inactive for long periods of time. If an alliance really wanted both a "supercoach" and a human player in each of the far zones, it would not be unrealistic for them to use a driver who is not doing anything at the moment to inbound the ball. This would free up the human player in the alliance station to be the supercoach for the whole match.

EDIT: After re-reading the relevant sections of the manual, I think that the "driver becomes temporary human player" is probably just a loophole. Then again, maybe not since G34 addresses only coaches and not drivers. In any case, I am going to make sure that my team's secondary driver has at least a little experience passing the ball to our robot.

I have not scoured the rules other than i remember them disallowing the couch from touching the ball, but each team member has a button he wears saying his role. they usually keep them very specialized. The coach is usually the only team member that is allowed to not be a student, which is probably why he/she can not touch the ball.

[Dan.Tyler]

Coaches on veteran alliances at regionals usually define one of the coaches to run the alliance in addition to their own drivers.

It's tough, but not unattainable. The key there is having a solid strategic base to build from. Set your strategy ahead of the match, and you only need alliance communications if something goes wrong.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by gpetilli

I have not scoured the rules other than i remember them disallowing the couch from touching the ball, but each team member has a button he wears saying his role. they usually keep them very specialized. The coach is usually the only team member that is allowed to not be a student, which is probably why he/she can not touch the ball.

As I recall, only the Coach's button is different (usually it has a sticker on it).

Not even when we had the Robo-Coach (if you don't know, don't ask) for Overdrive did we have distinct buttons. I remember because I don't know how many times I saw the Robo-Coach coming to the field wearing the Coach's button.