To Shoot or Not to Shoot

[dellagd]

Originally Posted by DevenStonow

You're missing the point of the quoted post, if you're fulfilling a certain role in a match, teams will notice, even if you can't hold your own in the slightest if you're alone.

I'd just like to throw in the accuracy of the FRC ranking system into this discussion. While smart teams will notice a niche robot, with the heavy reliance on partners for matches, I foresee the ranking system not being as... accurate (I say that lightly) as it has been in the past. You may have teams out there picking that didn't even scout (or scout effectively). Maybe I'm just too cautious, but something like that is just too risky, at least for us.

That being said, if you know your teams limits (a very hard thing to do), and you know an accurate-enough shooter is not in your capabilities, by all means make something that can catch and pass off a truss pass 100% of the time really quickly. Its great for this game.

I'd pick you.

Originally Posted by GUI

You don't need to seed high to win a regional, you need to be on an alliance that is competitive. I think it's fair to say that a high seeded alliance with two great shooters doesn't need a third shooter as much as they need an excellent assister/defender.

I completely agree. It's just not required by the game. Oh, and its time I made a call-out to Team 869. I've always liked your guy's defense bot style (disc-blowing fan last year), and I think this is the year for you

[efoote868]

Said this before, quoting so I don't have to repeat myself:

Originally Posted by efoote868

If your team can gather the ball and release it in a controlled manner faster than anyone else (with a moderately fast - fast drive train), I would expect your robot to be in the elimination bracket at any regional you attend. I wouldn't be surprised if your robot made it to Einstein either.

The highest rated teams at a regional won't be there by accident, and I expect them to be excellent in more ways than just building a robot. If you're worried about building a niche robot that won't get picked by a team that lacks scouting, then you're misunderstanding one of the primary reasons to build a niche robot.

If you're in FIRST to be competitive, you need to ask your team one question: Are we going to be able to choose our alliance this year, or do we have to get picked?
And if you're most teams, you'll ask yourselves a follow up question: How can we build a robot to get picked (What must our robot do to be desirable by other teams)?

[Jared Russell]

Which robot has a better chance of making eliminations?

The 9th best shooter in a Regional/Division, or the 9th best assister in a Regional/Division?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by inkling16

So what are we going to do? We will be the best ball manipulating team at the regional, and guarantee ourselves a spot in eliminations as a result of this.

I would say that that's a smart move, assuming that you can get some decent pairings in the quals. If you can score in the low goal with a lot of assists, you'll be pretty good at making your own road.

Originally Posted by Jared341

Which robot has a better chance of making eliminations?

The 9th best shooter in a Regional/Division, or the 9th best assister in a Regional/Division?

I would have to say that it depends on field depth in both classes. If 9th best is still a stellar shooter, I'd expect them to end up at about the 7th or 8th alliance captain, or picked. If they're a mediocre or poor shooter, then I'd expect them at the bottom end, if they were picked at all. OTOH, if the 9th best is a stellar assister, I'd put them as a late-first round, early-second round pick. Lousy assister, or worse, not a team player, lucky to get in on the late second round, or middle of third.


One thing that Torbots thought of was: shooters that don't shoot in any given match can still assist if their intake/outlet is good.

[Kernaghan]

I definately see your point in having a good passing robot. I believe at champs elimination alliances (correct me if I'm wrong) will consist of 2 shooters truss tossing attempting to catch then scoring and 1 second pick defensive - passer to get the full assist points. Speaking out of experience it is very hard to state that other teams will notice you, especially when you have a random schedule, what if no one else on your alliance can pass... how do you showcase your ability? However if it involves you building inside your means, I think it's the smartest thing you can do

[MooreteP]

Originally Posted by Jared341

Which robot has a better chance of making eliminations?

The 9th best shooter in a Regional/Division, or the 9th best assister in a Regional/Division?

There will be Goalie bots on each Einstein Alliance.

A Goalie bot only needs to receive the ball from the Human Player, then pass it to start the cycle. Then defend the goals and increase cycle times for the opposing alliance. 1 Zone.

Passing between robots intimately (Robot Makeout) may become the standard as a free ball can be deflected away, increasing cycle times.

[dellagd]

Originally Posted by MooreteP

There will be Goalie bots on each Einstein Alliance.

A Goalie bot only needs to receive the ball from the Human Player, then pass it to start the cycle. Then defend the goals and increase cycle times for the opposing alliance. 1 Zone.

Passing between robots intimately (Robot Makeout) may become the standard as a free ball can be deflected away, increasing cycle times.

I can easily imagine some VERY effective goalie bots making it to Einstein. A very fast drive train and really good drivers/code to track the ball could make a goalie bot quite viable. However I'd imagine theres a fine line between effective and ineffective. You can either be a goalie or you cant if your opponent knows what he's doing.

[SoftwareBug2.0]

Originally Posted by dellagd

While smart teams will notice a niche robot, with the heavy reliance on partners for matches, I foresee the ranking system not being as... accurate (I say that lightly) as it has been in the past. You may have teams out there picking that didn't even scout (or scout effectively). Maybe I'm just too cautious, but something like that is just too risky, at least for us.

I wonder if it's a good strategy to build a robot that doesn't look like anything unless you're really paying attention. This might reduce the odds that you'll be chosen by a team with a lucky schedule. There are a couple assumptions that I'm making here: 1) on-field performance and scouting quality are correlated, and 2) your goal is to maximize your odds to win the event rather than your odds of being picked.