Abilities of the top teams at a regional?

[mrnoble]

I count four times in a cycle when a ball is loose, starting with the inbound from the human player, and ending with a score shot. Even having a quick, close pass will only happen when there is little to no defense in a game with no protected zones. This doesn't count possible missed passes, missed shots, balls jostled free, and truss shots that aren't immediately caught or picked up.

I think the top teams will be the ones the ones that plan for loose balls and can quickly react with the fastest and most secure pickup.

[dchartley]

Almost all the shooters I've seen are very built low and could be blocked by a 5 ' tall robot. Our team decided to concentrate on maneuverability, ball handling and catching. With a 5' tall "glove" blocking short shooters should be easy.

Doug

[XaulZan11]

Originally Posted by AllenGregoryIV

I disagree, you already have to truss, how does catching waste time. The best alliances will without a doubt be catching the ball this year and it will be much less rare then the pyramid goal. It's too big of advantage to both save time and get points.

Did I miss it in the rule book that says you MUST truss pass to complete a cycle?

The fastest, safest way to complete is cycle is still forgoing the truss completely.

[AllenGregoryIV]

Originally Posted by XaulZan11

Did I miss it in the rule book that says you MUST truss pass to complete a cycle?

The fastest, safest way to complete is cycle is still forgoing the truss completely.

When an alliance wins a regional without consistently trussing during cycles, I'll happily admit I was wrong. Nothing in the rules said you had to hang at the end of last years game, but there wasn't a single winning alliance that didn't have at least one robot consistently on the pyramid at the end of the match last year.

[TheMadCADer]

Originally Posted by dchartley

Almost all the shooters I've seen are very built low and could be blocked by a 5 ' tall robot. Our team decided to concentrate on maneuverability, ball handling and catching. With a 5' tall "glove" blocking short shooters should be easy.

Doug

This sort of plan on defense works well to a point. A well organized alliance will realize that they only get points once that ball is scored. The other two robots won't be just sitting around, they'll be playing counter-defense. I see each alliance at any one point in time having one robot with the ball, one robot playing counter-defense, and one robot on defense (switching to counter-defense at a moment's notice). This means that defenders will almost always be 1v2 or worse.

The part that will separate the good alliances from the bad will be how well they handle trading off these roles. Whoever is playing defense might need to go and possess the ball for an assist, leaving the other alliance with a free path to score. Good teams will minimize how much movement between zones they need to do.

This is the concern I have with a catcher/shot blocker. Those tasks would take place in different zones. Instead, I could see there being more value in blocking truss shots, since you wouldn't need to move zones and it still prevents a lot of points (at least delaying the 10 points from the Truss Score as well as delaying the whole cycle).

Still, I think the ideal catcher is the robot that also scores the ball after catching it, being the last assist in the cycle. Having an exchange in your scoring zone will probably be more dangerous than on the other side of the Truss since for most teams the scoring zone is the 'obvious' place to play defense.

[Bryce2471]

I Know this is a little off topic, but it's highly related. My team, like many, wants to be a powerful offensive bot and choose our alliance at our first district competition. So I've been speculating on what I think the best offensive powerhouses will be able to do.
I think it can be generalized into two factors:
1. The ability to maximize point output and work done for the the alliance by there partners.(Plays well with others)
2. The ability to score well for themselves in case of bad luck.

I think that most of the attributes that will help the best teams accomplish those things will be summarized by one scouting data point. Their autonomous.
In other words, I think there will be a strong correlation between offensive abilities, and autonomous score.

Curious what other people think of this idea.

[Jibri Wright]

I think its really easy to get an accurate shot in the high goal. The thing that's gonna really excel top tier teams is if they can still shoot accurately while having defense on them. This isn't just blocking a shot. An easy way to stop a team from scoring in the high goal is to simply RAM into them while they're shooting! Tank drives can easily be pushed sideways and mecanums are even worse! Not only this, but if a shooter only has one spot or one distance they can shoot from, a good defensive bot won't even let the shooter get near this spot! That's why I'm so skeptical as to how many shots an accurate shooter can in fact shoot. Heck, if you have a good defense bot on your alliance that completely shuts down a shooter that 'needs' a sweet spot, all you need to do is decimate in autonomous and you've won.

[Whippet]

Originally Posted by Jibri Wright

Tank drives can easily be pushed sideways

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...hreadid=125224

I would be very surprised to see this "easily" pushed around.

[Arpan]

Originally Posted by Jibri Wright

Tank drives can easily be pushed sideways

Who's tank drives have you been dealing with lately? We've always had rather pushy robots but never been able to push other tank robots sideways.

[Woolly]

Originally Posted by Arpan

Who's tank drives have you been dealing with lately? We've always had rather pushy robots but never been able to push other tank robots sideways.

Pushing a tank drive robot sideways is possible, but it is much easier to turn a tank robot, considering most teams modify their tank drives to make them turn easier.

I think durability will play a bigger role this year. No safe zones or field obstructions, sounds like demolition derby. Are there any rules for un- sportsman like hits?

[Abhishek R]

Originally Posted by DMike

I think durability will play a bigger role this year. No safe zones or field obstructions, sounds like demolition derby. Are there any rules for un- sportsman like hits?

As long as it's just bumper to bumper contact, there isn't anything like an unsportsmanlike hit. As a result, if there's a defender coming at you from downfield at 15 fps and they're headed your way...you best move to the side or build your robot sturdily. Shouldn't be too big of a problem.

[indubitably]

Originally Posted by AllenGregoryIV

When an alliance wins a regional without consistently trussing during cycles, I'll happily admit I was wrong. Nothing in the rules said you had to hang at the end of last years game, but there wasn't a single winning alliance that didn't have at least one robot consistently on the pyramid at the end of the match last year.

Truss scoring has a much different strategic impact to the game than pyramid climbing did, no matter how high you chose to do it. It isn't a 5-10 sec way to add points at the end of a cycle, it is an easy to perform way to gain points during a cycle that has the potential to significantly reduce cycle time. We also don't know how defense is going to play out, if the offense doesn't have a catcher on the team, a defensive bot could bounce it right off themselves and across the field. I wouldn't chalk the truss shot up as being a given for any good alliance just yet, even though I personally think it will be very common.

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by Jibri Wright

I think its really easy to get an accurate shot in the high goal. The thing that's gonna really excel top tier teams is if they can still shoot accurately while having defense on them.

This pretty much sums it up for us.
Everybody with all of the resource videos, CAD files, and shooter ideas provided, vendors that sell parts with lots to choose (more than any other year), and the relatively big target relative to the ball size........should be able to score or hurl shots over the truss with great success.

Can teams do it effectively with defense.

2014 reminds me of elements of 2006 (defense), 2008 (track ball) and 2010 (2 goals, 1 defender).
I say the best driver/coach/drivetrain combo will be highly successful.

We stumbled onto a lucky feature that 2 of our students experimented with.
The idea doesnt make our robot any better than what we are trying to achieve offensively. But it does help against the defense that will be there when we try to score.

[Jibri Wright]

Originally Posted by Arpan

Who's tank drives have you been dealing with lately? We've always had rather pushy robots but never been able to push other tank robots sideways.

I meant push as in turn. Tank drive can be turned sideways.