VEXPro 2014 Product Initial Impressions

[Ben Martin]

Originally Posted by AlecS

Here you go

Thank you!

[apalrd]

We're using some VEX products this year, including many sets of wheels and versakey parts, and aluminum gears. I personally am loving the aluminum gears. They sounded great last night when paired with CIM motors and 11 tooth pinions (so much more gear ratio flexibility!)

Last year we ran the W-tread VersaWheels and were happy with them. We went from a much more expensive wheel and replacing the tread regularly (usually once per tournament) to a much cheaper, lighter wheel and replacing the whole wheel at the same interval (it's still cheaper to use the $5 disposable wheels vs plaction wheels and tread and a lot lighter)

In fact, I can't think of very much we bought from AM this year. Mostly pneumatic tanks and pumps and pneumatics stuff. Aluminum gears FTW.


Paul, could you put the gear ratio for the CIMile on the site? I downloaded the CAD model and figured it out from there. It's a fantastic ratio for both motors (29 tooth output gear, 12 tooth 775/8 tooth 550 input gear) (we aren't actually using a CIMile this year but we thought about it)

Also, you should make a shorter shift gearset for the ball shifter (<2:1) and a system to shift with vex motors.

[Steven Smith]

Originally Posted by techtiger1

All of this supports my thought that FRC has become too reliant on COTS items.

I know this was intended to be somewhat sarcastic, but to those concerned about the impact of COTS on FRC (I'm not one)... these comments remind me there there is still a huge amount of value to building team resources that can machine components and do internal testing.

There is always room for improvement. For example, the VersaChassis tolerances aren't tight enough such that you can just slap rivets on a frame and magically get a perfectly square chassis. We had ~1/8" of runout at 1ft from square after the freshman rivet team had their fun. It probably would have worked, but I had them drill them all out, showed them how to assemble it square, match drill, watch that they weren't twisting the frame as they riveted, etc. Now we are < 1/32" runout at 1ft.

That being said, when the Versa 2x1" was out of stock, our team priced regular 2x1" stock at a local supply house. Same price. Meaning, VEXPro is already beating them on VALUE. Sure they can charge me double for the frame to tighten the tolerances up a bit to make it foolproof, or I can be less foolish.

Same thing goes for other products. I remember reading about motor failures (BAG?) because people were side-loading or thrust loading motor shafts that were never spec'd for those loads. I can either demand VEX make a "more robust" motor that has additional weight and size with internal bearings able to take more abuse... or I can not abuse it.

Another one for us was Delrin washers. We figured out pretty quick that the 1/16" or 1/8" spacers weren't a great value (for us), as we're lucky enough to have a laser cutter that can run 300 to a sheet for 10% of the cost. Not everyone has a 30W laser cutter though. Even then, the thicker ones bloomed too much and the 2" thick spacers were a better value than spanning a several inch gap with a bucket of 1/8" spacers. Same goes for machining, many teams with "free" student/mentor machining time can create parts from raw stock cheaper than VEX. I'm sure VEX would be perfectly willing to sell parts more cheaply to FRC if you will supply them with the parts at a consistent tolerance and free labor to make thousands of them each year.

Back to the OP:
Long story short, if you want to hop on CD to criticize VEXPro (or AM, or any of our other suppliers that cater to FRC)... you would be well off to word your posts more positively. I may share some frustrations, but I also understand what is and is not realistic to expect of both the equipment and the companies at the pricing we receive parts at.

[Brandon Holley]

Thus far we have been very impressed with the VP parts we've received.

The 2X1 versatube is just freakin' awesome stuff. I love the 0.100" wall for weight savings and the ability to stuff a pulley inside.

We used several of the 15mm HTD pulleys (24T and 36T), as well as a few belt sizes. The parts are all obviously very high quality. We of course love the black anodize of the pulleys, but the fact that we didnt need to machine off hubs, or broach them ourselves is just a giant PLUS in our book.

The gears are very high quality as well. The drivetrain all assembled very smoothly, and runs extremely smoothly with very little noticeable friction in the system. Our drive train subteam was extremely happy with the setup.

Some photos below showing our implementation.

-Brando

[Ian Curtis]

Having never purchased VexPro parts before, extremely impressed with the Versaplanetaries. Gave one of our with-it a freshman a shipping box and a bucket of grease, told him where the Vex website was, and an hour later we had gearboxes! I love the options you have... ordered stages intending one set of ratios and actually built a separate set of ratios.

The CIM to VP also gave us an excuse to cut down some really banged up CIM output shafts.

There is just something adorable about a BAG in a Versaplanetary... thinking over the off-season we'll have to to purchase some 2 or 3 inch colsons and make a little drivetrain.

[team222badbrad]

Originally Posted by Ben Martin

Thank you!

Luckily we had a box of these laying around for ours! (Something that should have been included IMO.)

The 1/2" rings from this set worked perfectly.
http://www.harborfreight.com/300-pie...ent-67655.html

[pfreivald]

We've bought a bunch of VexPro products both this and last year, and have had zero problems with any of it this year. Zero.

The problems we had last year were dealt with quickly and professionally.

[Coach Norm]

Originally Posted by Steven Smith

Back to the OP:
Long story short, if you want to hop on CD to criticize VEXPro (or AM, or any of our other suppliers that cater to FRC)... you would be well off to word your posts more positively. I may share some frustrations, but I also understand what is and is not realistic to expect of both the equipment and the companies at the pricing we receive parts at.

As a mentor of our team, I am very disappointed to see some of the posts on CD blasting suppliers as some have. Is this the example we are wanting to set for our students? If these posts are from students, mentors where are you when the students need your guidance?

If you have such issues, deal directly with VEX. They have been very open to communications with all the teams here on CD and offered several ways for teams to communicate with them.


We are very fortunate to have suppliers who believe in FRC and the opportunities it provides for the students involved. I am certain that the prices and services they provide are not what we would find from other suppliers or we would see more vendors in this arena. AM, VEX and WCP are all veteran FRC'ers who know how the season goes in regards to getting orders in, managing time and completing builds.


Best of luck all.

[wireties]

1296 ordered lots of stuff from VexPro this year and, like others, a few parts were late arriving. But I dealt with the VP staff personally (since I pick the stuff up on the way home from work) and found them very professional and eager to make up for anything they could. We got varying reasons for the delays but all seemed logical to me - indeed they have all happened to me. And I normally deal with huge suppliers, not a niche market like FIRST. When something delayed my "builds" I had to explain it to an Admiral (I made a big piece of the navigation systems on our carriers). Generally speaking my customers were understanding as long as I made it up somehow. The point is that this happens in the "real world". There are lessons to be learned. I have found that politely but firmly pressing my suppliers and working out realistic resolutions that benefit all parties is a good way to go.

I did NOT find the pricing "devious" in any way. On the contrary I liked the "configuration" approach on the VP web site. It made perfect sense to me.

Nothing we bought from VexPro, this year or last, has ever failed. We used ball-shifters, versa planetaries, motors, shafts, bearings and many pneumatic COTS items both last year and this year.

[Michael Corsetto]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

Are you stating that you purchased VEXpro items from us last year and they did not make it through last season? If so, then I am interested to know what products you are referring to so we can determine if that was normal wear or unusual circumstances.

I believe T^2 was simply stating that our 2014 VP products have not seen a whole season yet. Besides the 2 stage ball-shifter output shaft loctite issue and the encoder gear issue last year, I believe 1678 was very happy with all the 2013 VP stuff we ordered. In fact, since Versaplanetary's are just THAT awesome, we will be reusing many of the housings from last year, and just buying different gear stages as needed.

Unfortunately, for certain applications, an 18" length of hex shaft isn't long enough for what we want to do. Of course, if we need the straightness, then we can make an alternative method work out. Out of curiosity, does holding a flatness tolerance on the 36" pose manufacturing difficulties, hence why it wasn't specified in the drawing? Just wondering, one thing on my wishlist for next year would definitely be 36" hex shaft with a better flatness tolerance, but I understand if this is economically unfeasible.

Also, I think it worth mentioning that I don't share T^2's view on the pancake cylinders. It was clear to me that the pancake cylinder was an add on, the reasoning behind this decision is solid, and did not seem underhanded in any way. Also, I make half the purchases for 1678, and I think everything VP/WCP does on their sites is clearly communicated and easy to navigate. Non-issue for me.

-Mike

[Paul Copioli]

Originally Posted by Michael Corsetto

.

Unfortunately, for certain applications, an 18" length of hex shaft isn't long enough for what we want to do. Of course, if we need the straightness, then we can make an alternative method work out. Out of curiosity, does holding a flatness tolerance on the 36" pose manufacturing difficulties, hence why it wasn't specified in the drawing? Just wondering, one thing on my wishlist for next year would definitely be 36" hex shaft with a better flatness tolerance, but I understand if this is economically unfeasible.
-Mike

Mike,

We just forgot it on the drawing. We were so focused on getting the Hex right, we didn't even think about specifying a flatness or straightness. Like I said before, the 3' shafts we had in stock were the remaining shafts from last year's purchase. Our new drawing has the straightness specified for our new purchase order. I am certain our supplier will push back on the straightness requirement for the 3/8" shaft, but at least the specification will make them pay attention to it.

Paul

[cadandcookies]

My team is absolutely in love with the VersaWheel DT-- I've never seen our wheel assemblies go together so quickly. Can't wait to see them in action.

As a team that ordered almost all of our drive train components from VexPro, I've been nothing but impressed by how everything "just works." We had some changeover in our drive train group, so products that minimize the amount of time they have to spend adapting and forcing hex shafts into round holes are much appreciated.

[jwfoss]

Over here on 558 we've been waiting for our VEX/WCP parts just like everyone else. Now that they have arrived, we couldn't be happier. In fact, VEX went above and beyond and drop shipped the hubs to us when we had ordered them from WCP.

The new 2014 VexPro Drive in a Day Chassis looks great, and has already gone under the mill for some modifications. It's exactly what we were looking for, and I really like the improvements from last years design.

In typical fashion we will be running colson wheels with dead axle hubs. This new iteration (based on the original design I worked with WCP on back in 2011-2012) are excellent and everything went together as expected today. We'll share some more images when the chassis is fully assembled.



Nothing quite like a fresh box of Colsons...

[Michael Blake]

Originally Posted by Ben Martin

Is there a good choice of snap ring for the hex shafts on the Versachassis? Maybe a McMaster part #?

Hi Ben!

Here's what we use from www.mcmaster.com ...

e-Clips #97431A340

--Michael Blake

[Nirvash]

While we haven't purchased as much from VEX as other teams, what we have gotten has been great, Versaplanetarys are great and were very easy to assemble.