YOU Predict the Average Match Score of 2014's Week 1 Regionals/Districts

[wilhitern1]

Originally Posted by Sean Raia

about 1/4 of robots on the field won't move or will move with very little control for the better half of Friday. Those that can move will have their fair share of mechanical + comm issues.

These estimates are blowing my mind. This is week 1 we are talking about.

If an alliance partner can set the ball on top of (even a non moving) robot and then pick it up, an assist is awarded. If a second alliance robot can get into a second zone, (same scenario as the first) another assist is awarded. Am I misunderstanding?

Neal

[jacqlecl772]

qual: 50-100
taking in to account that 1 ball scored in hot goal is 20 pts and 1 ball scored in not hot goal will is 15 and about 75% of the robots will be shooting in high goal auto and almost all robots will get mobility points at the end of auto the score will be around 30-40 points and the lack of end game gives you longer teleop = more time to score more times so probably about 30 pts - 50 pts in teleop

elim: 100-200+
better robots better team work more time to talk with alliance therefore ore points

[JohnSchneider]

Originally Posted by wilhitern1

If an alliance partner can set the ball on top of (even a non moving) robot and then pick it up, an assist is awarded. If a second alliance robot can get into a second zone, (same scenario as the first) another assist is awarded. Am I misunderstanding?

Neal

Which definition of "Assist" in the rule book did the non-moving robot meet?

[pntbll1313]

Originally Posted by animenerdjohn

Which definition of "Assist" in the rule book did the non-moving robot meet?

I don't think it meets any. A non moving robot cannot possess a ball and therefore cannot get an assist. If they were moving it would be carrying.

The following criteria define POSSESSION :
A) “carrying” (moving while supporting BALLS in or on the ROBOT),
B) “herding” (repeated pushing or bumping),
C) “launching” (impelling BALLS to a desired location or direction), and
D) “trapping” (overt isolation or holding one or more BALLS against a FIELD element or ROBOT in an attempt to shield them).
Violation: TECHNICAL FOUL per instance.

[wilhitern1]

Originally Posted by animenerdjohn

Which definition of "Assist" in the rule book did the non-moving robot meet?

ASSISTS are earned when a unique ALLIANCE ROBOT POSSESSES the ALLIANCE’S BALL in a unique ZONE

Point 2 - If an opponents ball falls into a non moving robot, the robot has possessed the ball, whether it meant to or not.

Neal

[pntbll1313]

Originally Posted by wilhitern1

ASSISTS are earned when a unique ALLIANCE ROBOT POSSESSES the ALLIANCE’S BALL in a unique ZONE

Point 2 - If an opponents ball falls into a non moving robot, the robot has possessed the ball, whether it meant to or not.

Neal

Can you please explain which of the 4 definitions of possessing that robot has done? A, B, C, or D? (see the post above yours for the different definitions of possession)

-Sorry I don't mean to derail this thread it just seems like this may be incorrect

[wilhitern1]

Originally Posted by pntbll1313

Can you please explain which of the 4 definitions of possessing that robot has done? A, B, C, or D? (see the post above yours for the different definitions of possession)

-Sorry I don't mean to derail this thread it just seems like this may be incorrect

A BALL that becomes unintentionally lodged on a ROBOT will be considered
POSSESSED by the ROBOT. Pretty obviously if it was intentional, it is then possession. So, I am saying that if the ball is not in the act of rolling off, then it is lodged.

Neal

[Caleb Sykes]

I have made a new thread for the subject of whether or not an immobile ROBOT may POSSESS a BALL. Thus we can keep the intent of this thread to be predicting the scores.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...21#post1325221

[Mr.Paulson]

Now that many teams have created systems that might go on their robot, are there new predictions out there for average and high scores?

I am seeing a lot of good shooters and many plans for multiple ball auto modes which may equal better scores...?

[Racer26]

Doesn't change my predictions any. Multi-game piece autos have been around for years, and are so infrequent that they don't really impact the average. Mostly because they by definition must take a game piece from an alliance mate.

[BBray_T1296]

I think this is the easiest year in terms of autonomous. A simple dead-reckoning drive forwards will basically guarantee 5 points to start.
While teams may not have shooters capable of scoring in the top goal, those who do should also have little trouble hitting the massive openings (left/right wise), relying on a 50/50 chance of getting the hot goal bonus. Teams can get 10-15 points with no sensors or semi-intelligent coding at all (Release shooter, drive forward 3 seconds).

I think 3 ball autonomouses (autonomi?) will not be typically necessary. If you have a robot in the GOALIE zone or a brick-bot teammate, then it will be very advantageous to have a 2 ball, but I think it will be pretty unlikely to need 3 ball capability, unless you end up unlucky with 2 brick-bots on your alliance in quali's.

I predict that most teams will be capable of at least 1 useful thing offense-wise, or they will be an extremely specialized defense bot. I predict there will not be many robots with no capabilities other than driving/herding.


I predict the average score being 50-30 (for the winners) in the qualis and boost that to 80-60 for elims. I am going source my thought process back to 2010.

[cglrcng]

Originally Posted by animenerdjohn

Which definition of "Assist" in the rule book did the non-moving robot meet?

(3.1.4) Partial only..."ASSISTS are earned when a unique ALLIANCE ROBOT POSSESSES the ALLIANCE’S BALL in a unique ZONE (i.e. red, white, or blue ZONE) during a CYCLE. A ROBOT is considered in a ZONE if it is in contact with the carpet in a ZONE or the tape marking the ZONE, but not in contact with carpet or tape for another ZONE. Because there are up to three (3) ALLIANCE ROBOTS and three (3) ZONES, the maximum number of ASSISTS in a single CYCLE is three (3). Examples of the number of ASSISTS credited to an ALLIANCE are shown in Figure 3-4 (X = POSSESSION, yellow highlight = credited ASSIST, ROBOT IDs are across the top, ZONES are depicted by color)......."


__________________________Is the robot (Red #2), on the field, is it on, and did it possess the ball in a unique zone? Was an Assist awarded in the example he gave and below.....Yes.

"Possession" of the ball by a unique robot in a zone. (IE: Red Alliance...."Red Robot #2 is the non-moving bot located in the White Zone" (still there from the Auto period perchance)...Red Robot #1 takes possession of the ball in the Blue Zone inbounded/delivered from Red Human Player (running ball from Red Lighted Cylinder behind the Blue Alliance Station to the Blue Zone)...1 Assist awarded (0 points), Red Robot takes ball to Red Robot #2 and hands off possession of the ball, 2 Assists awarded (10 Points), Red Robot #1 takes posession back of ball from Red Robot#2, and heads over and shoots over the truss toward the Red Scoring Zone (10 Points), and then chases down the ball again, hands off or passes the ball off to Red Robot #3 in the Red scoring zone, who actually takes possession (who can or cannot shoot, but can pass back...Assist #3 is now earned (Red Alliance has 30 Total Points now scored on Assists in the cycle + the Truss points of 10=40 total). Red Robot #1 shoots and makes high goal (10 more points). 2 working mobile robots / 3 present / & only 1 that has decent mobility and can accomplish many game actions elements, can shoot high and hot, and can pass and pick up without fail and at will (there will be many of those from what I have seen so far);Total Red 1 cycle score: 50 points scored!

A decent robot who can do those things w/ even just minor alliance partner help and working at it a bit will score 200~250 or more points in a match and adding in 25~75 moblie/high/hot Auto points easy).

(Just a single robot running up and down the field shooting truss and high goal cycles repeatedly won't do it at only 20 Points max score a cycle). If that is your plan, it isn't playing as designed, so you will actually be rewarded very little scoring points.

The game is Aerial ASSIST! It was designed for teamwork from teams it appears. Let's all work together. This game awards it. If there are that many that cannot gain the mobility points the first week, than WE IN FIRST, and on Veteran FIRST FRC TEAMS...We failed at our jobs....Now....or On Thursday, help those other teams get moving and playing well before Friday!

The only guess I will make at this point....Most here are guessing way too low here. 2:30 is a long time (though the 10 second Auto period really isn't).

Lots of points to be had here (75 Max possible in Auto per Alliance=Mobility 15 /High Goal 45/Hot Goal 15/(Low Goal 6 ea for 18 possible minimum/33 max. if hot too, and balls can be pushed into those goals BTW, no Pick Up necessary to score, just mobility)....And there will be plenty of 2 shot autos attempted early and many made, maybe even a 3 attempted. That 2nd and or 3rd shot will still be good for ten each in teleop after first 10 second auto clock has expired (as I read it), while others on your alliance head up field. (That auto extra 5 points is a bonus score remember). Lots of time for a high/hot shot + mobility points. That high goal is actually a huge target.

A huge open field for driving / passing, w/ no real clutter around except robots and 4 corner goals, and only 4 "semi-safe zones" (that are actually unqualified zones as completely indefensible by a goalie...shooting spots -2 on each end, that are opponent loading zones too...Well, they were....I'm actually waiting for the GDC to hang up "no parking signs" eventually). Lol.

Each Alliance Cycle; Max 60 Points Possible Per Alliance=3 Assists 30, high goal 10, Truss 10, Truss Catch 10 (Safely 3~7 cycles in 2:20). Then add in all the penalty points possibilities, w/ 3 human players and HP Zones, bots attempting >50 ft. shooting of 2' big bouncing balls, etc.

Table 3-1: Penalty Point Values

FOUL 20
TECHNICAL FOUL 50

And the scoring climbs dramatically per cycle.

Running down and controlling those missed passes & shots quickly....Priceless!

(I will make a bold prediction....)There will be no 0~0 games the first week...Not counting any 6 robot no shows Practice & Qualifying round possibilities, of course. But, if they are on the field there will be no 0~0 scoring matches. Field breakdowns do not count.

[Woolly]

Regional Qualifications: 50
Regional Eliminations: 90
Worlds Qualifications: 75
Worlds Eliminations: 110
Einstein: 150
IRI Eliminations: 170

[Caleb Sykes]

I thought it would be a good time to bring this thread back up. I have attached some quick data analysis I did of the predictions. Looking back on my prediction, one thing that I did not account for was penalties. Even if there is only one foul every other match, that would increase the average alliance's score by 5 points. I am glad that FIRST changed the rule for extending outside of the field to minimize this penalty. I can't think of any others that will be called frequently, but we'll have to see.

min:	17.5
median:	50
max:	200
mean: 	61.36486486
mode:	50
stdev:	33.52503071

[nicholsjj]

Let's see. I consider my team to be average and I think that we probably lost as many build season days, 18, as anyone did. We can hit the high goal in auto and move every time for 20 pts. We probably could get around 2~5 cycles a match depending on defense so I'm going to say that the winning alliance score will be 60-90 points and the losing score will be 30-60 points barring fouls.Those numbers go up by 60 each for elims and I think I still might be a bit low.