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  #31   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-02-2014, 18:51
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Re: Human Player

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryVoshol View Post
That will have to be fixed. Else there's nothing to prohibit a HP from grabbing an opponent's ball and holding it for the remainder of the match.
True. G32 only covers deflection.

Devil's advocate on myself: An HP holding their opponents' ball is simply an extremely delayed deflection...
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  #32   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-02-2014, 23:33
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Re: Human Player

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryVoshol View Post
That will have to be fixed. Else there's nothing to prohibit a HP from grabbing an opponent's ball and holding it for the remainder of the match.
<G40> TEAMS may not extend any body part into the FIELD during the MATCH.
Violation: TECHNICAL FOUL.

You'd have to grab one that has left the field. That's not worth basing a strategy around, and I don't even think it's worth having a contingency plan for.
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Unread 02-02-2014, 03:57
TheMadCADer TheMadCADer is offline
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Re: Human Player

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricH View Post
True. G32 only covers deflection.

Devil's advocate on myself: An HP holding their opponents' ball is simply an extremely delayed deflection...
If G32 doesn't prevent it, could it be argued that the ball is "stuck" and can be declared dead? You lose Assist points, but you can still play the match.

Even then, I expect someone to Q&A this, and the GDC will make the obvious ruling. Holding the opposing alliance's ball should be a penalty.
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Unread 02-02-2014, 20:11
Ikillee Ikillee is offline
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What if you have the 6 inch diameter arm pointed to the HP so the deflection angle is generally towards him/her. Then HP is the all star b-baller at your school. You'd be set?
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Unread 02-02-2014, 20:20
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Re: Human Player

Absent any ruling of the GDC, Any touching of the other alliance's ball is going to be considered a deflection. Holding the ball & refusing to turn it over to the field people is going to be failure to follow instructions & probably a red card.

It is interesting to go down this road. But don't ever think it is anything but a dead end.
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Unread 02-02-2014, 20:36
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Re: Human Player

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankJ View Post
Absent any ruling of the GDC, Any touching of the other alliance's ball is going to be considered a deflection.
Just to satisfy my curiosity, where did you learn this? Remember, words not specifically defined in the Manual are to be defined with the English dictionary. A touch is not a deflection; grabbing and holding is not a deflection. Knocking the ball back onto the field or changing its course to miss all field reset if it was on the way out would be a deflection.

That said, I would tend to agree that not turning it over to the field crew on request would probably end up as egregious behavior, and thus be eligible for a card.


Also, to this time REALLY play Devil's Advocate on myself, and on my own Devil's Advocate, and hopefully put this to rest, or not...
G12 calls out that an Alliance may not Possess their opponents' Ball. The definition of Alliance calls out that it's up to 4 Teams. A Team is the Coach, Human Player, and Drivers, also from the Glossary. Thus, no possession by Human Player.

The only problem with this reasoning is that the definition of Possess specifies that it's for a Robot (only!). Thus, G12 is a moot point, as an Alliance does NOT include the Robot, thus a Robot may Possess the Ball of the opposing Alliance indefinitely...
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  #37   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-02-2014, 22:46
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Re: Human Player

My superior powers of deduction
The general intent on G 32 is the human players are not to interfere with the other alliance's ball. You don't really think the GDC is going to rule any other way?
  #38   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-02-2014, 22:59
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Re: Human Player

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankJ View Post
My superior powers of deduction
The general intent on G 32 is the human players are not to interfere with the other alliance's ball. You don't really think the GDC is going to rule any other way?
Because I believe there to be a high likelihood of balls bouncing wildly out of play rather often (possibly overwhelming the officials ability to quickly return them every time - and thus slowing game play to an un-exciting tempo) I believe it possible that the GDC will permit an opposing human player to catch and return to the field a ball leaving the field in their HP zone. If that's the case, it would be in that HP's best interest to field it in a direction away from the opposing alliance's robots and goal. I kind of hope this is the outcome, because it will make the game more exciting to watch, and will reward alliances for better control of the ball.

I agree with you that they will rule that any prolonged holding of the ball to prevent play by the opposing alliance will be prohibited.

That being said...I won't be surprised if they rule that any deliberate contact by an opposing HP is prohibited (deflection, catch, etc.). But again, I hope not.
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  #39   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-02-2014, 10:39
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Re: Human Player

Q&A has already ruled you can't deflect the opposing alliances ball back unto the field. While catching the ball & quickly handing it to an official or other alliance's HP would be in the spirit of GP, I don't see the GDC allowing it. If you where to attempt to catch it & didn't it would a deflection & a penalty under any reading of the current rule..
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Unread 13-02-2014, 16:52
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Exclamation Re: Human Player

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBray_T1296 View Post
If you have two robots that don't interface well (for whatever reason), One robot could pass to the human and then they could drop it into the other robot, completing an assist. At least, I think an (1) assist can come from robot>human>robot combos. Maybe I am wrong though
I actually wouldn't be surprised if a human player could be an assist in and of itself, let's say robot 1 is dead, so it never moves past the white zone, robot 2 starts with the ball and assists to robot 3 in the white zone, what if robot 3 gave the ball to the human player in the blue zone, is that three assists, I would highly doubt it, but just something to think about because FIRST does all sorts of crazy things with hidden rules trying to make us think.
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Unread 13-02-2014, 17:22
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Re: Human Player

Quote:
Originally Posted by rylerman1 View Post
I actually wouldn't be surprised if a human player could be an assist in and of itself, let's say robot 1 is dead, so it never moves past the white zone, robot 2 starts with the ball and assists to robot 3 in the white zone, what if robot 3 gave the ball to the human player in the blue zone, is that three assists, I would highly doubt it, but just something to think about because FIRST does all sorts of crazy things with hidden rules trying to make us think.
You should probably reread the Manual.
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  #42   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 14-02-2014, 09:41
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Re: Human Player

Quote:
Originally Posted by rylerman1 View Post
...what if robot 3 gave the ball to the human player in the blue zone...
If the human player is on the field during a match, the alliance will be assessed a Technical Foul for violating <G40>, and the team is likely to be assigned a red card for egregious behavior.
  #43   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 14-02-2014, 13:49
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Red face Re: Human Player

Adding one simple suggestion for human players on the sidelines....I attempted to catch a full power shot ball on the down stroke (falling from about 10' high as our bot was on a concrete platform about 3' higher than I was standing), and they can rotate quite well in the air, the cover is both very slick and quite rough, and creates a lot of fingertip friction w/ that nylon cover & those seams (especially the zipper area)...Gloves will/may just save those unique fingerprints you like so much HP's...Just my 0.02 cents on the subject. (Just think rug burned hot fingertips and palms.....I cannot even imagine the tender nose or forehead areas w/ those bright red spots that may be very evident at Regionals and Champs this year!)

I expect to also see over time more than a few quite fast moving inbounders, due to the large size of the gamepiece possibly carried too high, trip and do a faceplant into the ball...The real question is...Will you personally laugh or wince w/ the HP? (Think "Gracious Professionalism" please!) Straps holding the safety glasses to the head may just help there.
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Unread 15-02-2014, 13:45
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Re: Human Player

Actually, after doing extensive research across the game manual, truss points can only be scored through being caught by a robot. As quoted from the game manual:
A CATCH occurs when a BALL SCORED over the TRUSS by a ROBOT’S ALLIANCE partner is POSSESSED by that ROBOT before contacting the carpet, the ROBOT which SCORED the TRUSS, or HUMAN PLAYER.

In explanation, only the robot(s) that didn't possess the ball before the truss throw are the only ones who can catch it; not the human player or the robot that threw it

Last edited by Chessmaster001 : 15-02-2014 at 13:55.
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Unread 15-02-2014, 13:52
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Re: Human Player

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chessmaster001 View Post
Actually, after doing extensive research across the game manual, truss points can only be scored through being caught by a robot. As quoted from the game manual:
A CATCH occurs when a BALL SCORED over the TRUSS by a ROBOT’S ALLIANCE partner is POSSESSED by that ROBOT before contacting the carpet, the ROBOT which SCORED the TRUSS, or HUMAN PLAYER.

You're entirely incorrect as to when Truss points can be scored, AND the rule you brought in refers to Catch points instead of Truss points.
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