In Case Paralyzing Snowstorm

[TNT280Staff]

Blankets or sleeping bags

[Wayne TenBrink]

If anyone has the ability to work at home, make sure they take the necessary raw materials, etc.

[Joe Ross]

Make sure your teacher knows how to access your school's emergency supplies.

[JamesCH95]

Originally Posted by MechEng83

I'm not sure why so many people are jumping on the OP for asking this question. I think he's trying to prepare for uncertainties. Think of this as an "Emergency Preparedness Kit" Do you have a first aid kit in your shop? (FYI, the answer should be "yes") Do you plan on having to use it? No -- you prepare in case you need to.

Sometimes, bad weather can come without sufficient notice (a la Geogia this past week). It's best to be prepared for these occasions and never have to use them rather than the reverse.

If we all just sat and were afraid that bad weather might come, or the road might be closed, or some other uncontrollable situation, we'd never get anything done.

You don't get it, it's not about taking no risks, it's about avoiding reasonable risks when it is easy and prudent to do so. It's about ensuring the risks are worth the rewards. Clearly they have enough warning to avoid a serious storm, then they clearly have enough time to cancel the meeting(s).

And yes, we all hope to never have to use our shop's first-aid kit. But being stranded in a school greatly raises the consequences of any accident, shifting the risk/reward analysis results.

Here is a hypothetical situation: an open fracture. Someone nicks their finger on a saw, to the bone. Not an uncommon shop accident. This type of injury requires IMMEDIATE antibiotic treatment. Typically a drive to the ER, a few stitches, and IV/pill antibiotics and you're good to go. Do you keep IV antibiotics and sutures in your first aid kit? On the other hand if you're stranded in a school for two days the bone could easily get infected because all you've got are some band-aids and alcohol swabs. They could be looking at surgery, long-term or life-time antibiotics, or having their finger/limb amputated to stop the infection from spreading.

Now, I realize that sounds a bit dramatic, and is unlikely to happen, but it illustrates the issue very nicely: being stranded raises the stakes for any mistake or accident significantly. This is, of course, on top of any transportation/travel hazards.

[Jon Stratis]

Personally, if the weather report made it look like being stranded at the school was a possibility, I'm pretty sure we would cancel the meeting that night. Even if it turns out the snow doesn't hit until later and we would have been fine, I think it's the right thing to do - safety FIRST! FWIW, we've already had 5 cold-weather cancellations this season...

Take a look at what needs to be done, and come up with stuff students can do outside of the shop. Work on PR, sponsor letters, award submissions... the robot can wait a day or two.

[lpickett]

FRC1730 is lucky they have mentors and coaches that live nearby. We can be there when the need arises to have adult support and food/drink at the ready. Sleeping bags, cots, blankets are always helpful to have handy in the car. I usually travel with a sleeping bag in the trunk in bad weather. We also keep a first aid kit at the build site. We have a phone in the building for emergencies. Our reception is only good by the doors and windows. Let it snow!!!!

[JesseK]

While I'm generally in the 'it is a bad idea to encourage the team to risk their necks in the snow' camp, meeting at someone's house is no different than meeting at a school with respect to risk factors.

Verify with the school administration that the heat will be kept on during school closures. Our school district has a strict policy regarding energy conservation, which means if the school is closed then the heat is off without special permission.

[Woolly]

A DC to AC power inverter would be a heck of an idea in case of power failure.

[MechEng83]

Originally Posted by JamesCH95

You don't get it, it's not about taking no risks, it's about avoiding reasonable risks when it is easy and prudent to do so. It's about ensuring the risks are worth the rewards. Clearly they have enough warning to avoid a serious storm, then they clearly have enough time to cancel the meeting(s).

And yes, we all hope to never have to use our shop's first-aid kit. But being stranded in a school greatly raises the consequences of any accident, shifting the risk/reward analysis results.

Here is a hypothetical situation: an open fracture. Someone nicks their finger on a saw, to the bone. Not an uncommon shop accident. This type of injury requires IMMEDIATE antibiotic treatment. Typically a drive to the ER, a few stitches, and IV/pill antibiotics and you're good to go. Do you keep IV antibiotics and sutures in your first aid kit? On the other hand if you're stranded in a school for two days the bone could easily get infected because all you've got are some band-aids and alcohol swabs. They could be looking at surgery, long-term or life-time antibiotics, or having their finger/limb amputated to stop the infection from spreading.

Now, I realize that sounds a bit dramatic, and is unlikely to happen, but it illustrates the issue very nicely: being stranded raises the stakes for any mistake or accident significantly. This is, of course, on top of any transportation/travel hazards.

I "get it." I have made the call to cancel team meetings because it's unsafe to travel during the weekend, when the school doesn't dictate closures. I'm the one who is responsible for the kids' safety when they're in the shop. I "get it" and take great offense that you think I don't.

Your injury example is quite the hyperbole. Injuries are possible when slicing a bagel and making coffee at home, so I guess we should only eat luke-warm, soft foods during a snow storm... Certainly there's a risk-reward calculation. We all have different tolerances for risks. Building a robot is not worth credible life-threatening risks, and while I don't wish to speak directly for the OP, it doesn't seem like that is his intent.

I'll reiterate, the OP isn't planning on getting stuck. He's stated that multiple times. He's preparing for getting stuck as an unplanned occurance. I applaud the willingness to be prepared.

[JamesCH95]

Originally Posted by MechEng83

I "get it." I have made the call to cancel team meetings because it's unsafe to travel during the weekend, when the school doesn't dictate closures. I'm the one who is responsible for the kids' safety when they're in the shop. I "get it" and take great offense that you think I don't.

Your injury example is quite the hyperbole. Injuries are possible when slicing a bagel and making coffee at home, so I guess we should only eat luke-warm, soft foods during a snow storm... Certainly there's a risk-reward calculation. We all have different tolerances for risks. Building a robot is not worth credible life-threatening risks, and while I don't wish to speak directly for the OP, it doesn't seem like that is his intent.

I'll reiterate, the OP isn't planning on getting stuck. He's stated that multiple times. He's preparing for getting stuck as an unplanned occurance. I applaud the willingness to be prepared.

I meant that you didn't seem to understand the point I was trying to make, not that you don't understand team safety. I'm sorry if it seemed that way.

Do you understand how the risk of being stranded compounds the inherent risk of working in a shop? They know there is severe weather coming in. Why chance it at all? That is what I'm trying to get at.

If they are planning on carrying all that stuff around with them proactively, that's great, but it didn't sound that way from the OP. The hypothetical situation OP was addressing is 'if school is cancelled' (i.e. there is bad weather) and 'the district lets us work'. Why not cancel robotics when school is cancelled?

You are trivializing the nature of my example, using your own hyperbole. Using shop equipment is NOT equivalent to slicing a bagel. My example is an unlikely occurrence, but it is possible. I'm sure a number of teams can provide examples of similar injuries during build season: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=35877 and all that is required for my example to become fact is timing.

Again, I'm sorry if it seemed like I was insulting you, that was not my intent. I was trying to get you to appreciate that the consequences of not being able to seek professional medical attention can be devastating. I don't think any team should be using shop equipment when they know that getting to a hospital will be very difficult, if not impossible. We all take risks, but we can choose to be intelligent about how we mitigate those risks. I strongly believe that keeping everyone on a team at home under the threat of severe weather is something we should all do.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by JamesCH95

Why not cancel robotics when school is cancelled?

I've had plenty of cases where the roads were impassable in portions of the district but for the majority of people the roads were great. Or they were great by the afternoon. Situations change but once a school closes it can't very well reopen, FRC teams have a lil more flexibility.

[MechEng83]

Originally Posted by JamesCH95

I meant that you didn't seem to understand the point I was trying to make, not that you don't understand team safety. I'm sorry if it seemed that way.

Do you understand how the risk of being stranded compounds the inherent risk of working in a shop? They know there is severe weather coming in. Why chance it at all? That is what I'm trying to get at.

If they are planning on carrying all that stuff around with them proactively, that's great, but it didn't sound that way from the OP. The hypothetical situation OP was addressing is 'if school is cancelled' (i.e. there is bad weather) and 'the district lets us work'. Why not cancel robotics when school is cancelled?

You are trivializing the nature of my example, using your own hyperbole. Using shop equipment is NOT equivalent to slicing a bagel. My example is an unlikely occurrence, but it is possible. I'm sure a number of teams can provide examples of similar injuries during build season: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=35877 and all that is required for my example to become fact is timing.

Again, I'm sorry if it seemed like I was insulting you, that was not my intent. I was trying to get you to appreciate that the consequences of not being able to seek professional medical attention can be devastating. I don't think any team should be using shop equipment when they know that getting to a hospital will be very difficult, if not impossible. We all take risks, but we can choose to be intelligent about how we mitigate those risks. I strongly believe that keeping everyone on a team at home under the threat of severe weather is something we should all do.

Thank you for your clarification. The internet is not a place where tone and mood are easy to interpret. I, too, should apologize for my reaction . I'll blame the stress of build season. I am perhaps hypersensitive to the "missing days" dilema, as we've missed 8 so far this build season, and it's possible that we'll miss more in the next 2 weeks due to forecasted weather. The school district we are in has cancelled all extracurricular activities on certain days because of the cold, which in my opinion is bogus where we're concerned since we meet indoors and it wasn't unsafe to travel (no precipitation, roads clear). After all, they still had school...

Regardless, teams should stay safe. I agree, avoid unnecessary risks. If the words "Travel Warning" and "Snow Emergency" come into play, you shouldn't meet. Health/Safety >> Robots. Be Proactive. Don't be stupid.

[JamesCH95]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

I've had plenty of cases where the roads were impassable in portions of the district but for the majority of people the roads were great. Or they were great by the afternoon. Situations change but once a school closes it can't very well reopen, FRC teams have a lil more flexibility.

That sounds like a local anomaly... or at least different from my area. When school is cancelled, or even just after-school activities, the roads are usually ubiquitously un-passable (at least safely).

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by JamesCH95

That sounds like a local anomaly... or at least different from my area. When school is cancelled, or even just after-school activities, the roads are usually ubiquitously un-passable (at least safely).

Usually it's that situation wherein it was a "storm of the century" and all the schools closed the night before in which we got a light dusting. Or the roads were icy in the AM but once the salt trucks and the sun hit them they were fine.

[Robotmmm]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

Deodorant.

High school students smell bad enough normally, two day old HS funk is beyond what I can tolerate.

This is hilarious, yet painfully true.