[FRC Miner] Goodbye Miner

[Zach O]

I've gotten a few questions about this, so I decided to post on Chief. I'm shutting down FRC Miner. Thank you everyone who used Miner over the past two years. You're all awesome.

If you want to read about my decision to shut down Miner, I wrote a blog post. Warning: I also used this as a medium to talk about some of the issues I have with the resources FIRST offers for developers. Although this, by no means, is the primary reason for shutting down Miner, I think it's something FIRST should look to improve in the future.

[cadandcookies]

Originally Posted by Zach O

I've gotten a few questions about this, so I decided to post on Chief. I'm shutting down FRC Miner. Thank you everyone who used Miner over the past two years. You're all awesome.

If you want to read about my decision to shut down Miner, I wrote a blog post. Warning: I also used this as a medium to talk about some of the issues I have with the resources FIRST offers for developers. Although this, by no means, is the primary reason for shutting down Miner, I think it's something FIRST should look to improve in the future.

I think we'll all be sad to see it go. I really enjoyed the data visualization.

And the struggle for accurate remote data collection continues.

[PayneTrain]

I've talked about it before but it really is silly that FIRST spends oodles of noodles on all of the networking equipment to run FMS on the field but the data the end user gets has not changed really at all over the last 7 years I've followed the program (and that's with a massive overhaul of the FMS, iirc). Couple that with the appearnce that FIRST's web presence is probably controlled by 3 interns peddling a bicycle in the basement of FIRST HQ to generate enough electricity to run whatever toaster they put their content on, and it's frustrating to say the least.

It's 2014! Some of the stuff they use is literally stuck in 2007. Why are we shooting video in 4:3 at competitions? Why is the scoring information so hard to get even at the event? Why can't their be an FMS API? I feel like FIRST is at a point in its growth phase that it should be investing a pinch of its $13.4 million cash on hand into putting on the better show and giving teams and fans (yes, there are fans!) a direct or indirect way to access real-time information at events and give developers ways to display that information (Think about Google Glass app for drive coaches! Then I wouldn't have to dart my vision to another place). I mean, there are a lot of neat people in FRC who just want the opportunity to do this stuff for fun. Give those people that chance.

Also, if no one takes anything away from the blog post, at least save this:

Lesson learned, I should have listened to Ether.

That statement can be applied to a lot of things.

[coalhot]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

I've talked about it before but it really is silly that FIRST spends oodles of noodles on all of the networking equipment to run FMS on the field but the data the end user gets has not changed really at all over the last 7 years I've followed the program (and that's with a massive overhaul of the FMS, iirc). Couple that with the appearnce that FIRST's web presence is probably controlled by 3 interns peddling a bicycle in the basement of FIRST HQ to generate enough electricity to run whatever toaster they put their content on, and it's frustrating to say the least.

It's 2014! Some of the stuff they use is literally stuck in 2007. Why are we shooting video in 4:3 at competitions? Why is the scoring information so hard to get even at the event? Why can't their be an FMS API? I feel like FIRST is at a point in its growth phase that it should be investing a pinch of its $13.4 million cash on hand into putting on the better show and giving teams and fans (yes, there are fans!) a direct or indirect way to access real-time information at events and give developers ways to display that information (Think about Google Glass app for drive coaches! Then I wouldn't have to dart my vision to another place). I mean, there are a lot of neat people in FRC who just want the opportunity to do this stuff for fun. Give those people that chance.

The thing I find a little more interesting is that after volunteering for FTC in the last few weeks and being near the field, they do a lot more with simpler hardware and software. And it all seems to work a bit better...

[Zach O]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

Couple that with the appearnce that FIRST's web presence is probably controlled by 3 interns peddling a bicycle in the basement of FIRST HQ to generate enough electricity to run whatever toaster they put their content on, and it's frustrating to say the least.

Hahaha. I'm dying.

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

It's 2014! Some of the stuff they use is literally stuck in 2007. Why are we shooting video in 4:3 at competitions? Why is the scoring information so hard to get even at the event? Why can't their be an FMS API? [...] I mean, there are a lot of neat people in FRC who just want the opportunity to do this stuff for fun. Give those people that chance.

I completely agree. It's hard to say "FIRST should do X" or "FIRST should do Y" without knowing what sort of resources they have. The FMS isn't made by FIRST, possibly because they don't have the manpower to do it internally or they've decided that it's not worth their effort to create and maintain. Maybe FIRST doesn't have the sysadmins to beef up their web servers. So although there are lots of things I've love to see, I understand why they'd forgo doing some of them.

[cgmv123]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

Why are we shooting video in 4:3 at competitions?

4:3 SD, no less.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

ICouple that with the appearnce that FIRST's web presence is probably controlled by 3 interns peddling a bicycle in the basement of FIRST HQ to generate enough electricity to run whatever toaster they put their content on

As someone who impersonates a toaster on Twitter on a regular basis... A toaster would be more reliable.

The bigger issue is that we don't have documentation available to us anywhere. Right now historical FRC matches are sprawled across hundreds of youtube accounts with a myriad of tags. TBA is a start but it seems silly that FIRST doesn't have a publicly accessible location with their history. How can I possibly explain the sheer amazement that was 71 in 2002 or 469 in 2010 without a video? And why can't I go to FIRST's toaster-site and find good videos of them? Or at least their youtube channel.. If we want to change the culture we need to start showcasing our robots the same way the major sports things showcase historical games.

[XaulZan11]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

And why can't I go to FIRST's toaster-site and find good videos of them? Or at least their youtube channel.. If we want to change the culture we need to start showcasing our robots the same way the major sports things showcase historical games.

I actually think FIRST is better at showcasing old games online than the NFL. Trying to find NFL games or highlights is impossible. Atleast FIRST has their own youtube channel with all matches from the Championship the past two season. Major progress.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by XaulZan11

I actually think FIRST is better at showcasing old games online than the NFL. Trying to find NFL games or highlights is impossible. Atleast FIRST has their own youtube channel with all matches from the Championship the past two season. Major progress.

It is, indeed, getting better. However, there's about 20 years of undocumented stuff. And some of the best plays are not at CMP.

[Justin Montois]

Sad to see it go but I'm always grateful for the work you're doing Zach. Megaphone is awesome and I look forward to seeing any other projects you're working on.

[PVCpirate]

As far as the history side of things, as FRC grows, something the community may have to come to grips with is the lack of historical match data. The way I see it, FRC is becoming more like most high school sports with the rise of districts. From what I have seen, it's tough to find any old game videos for any sports, even football games from last year. Although it is a shame that we lose all this video, it's just something that happens, especially as the number of events continues to grow.

[Eugene Fang]

Sad to see Miner go, but I'll definitely be implementing Miner's features in TBA. Unless someone wants to do it and submit a pull request first!

I completely agree with Zach's view on poorly available public data from FIRST. Why can't I see the teams who participated in the 1992 event even though this page says there are 26 registered teams? A solution for now is to crowdsource data, but this involves extra work for all parties and still doesn't cover all the bases.

Sports is driven by statistics, videos, and more. We need easier access to these things in order for FIRST to really become the sport of the mind.

Zach, I'm looking forward to seeing your other projects!