Bumper Number Question

[burde1jb]

Okay. I know bumpers are everyone's favorite topic right now at the end of build season.

Per the rule book:
R28
Team numbers must be displayed on the BUMPERS and meet the following criteria:

consist of numerals at least 4 in. high, at least ½ in. in stroke width, and be either white in color or outlined in white,
may not wrap around a corner of the FRAME PERIMETER (for the purposes of R28 a round or circular FRAME PERIMETER has no corners), and
be positioned around the ROBOT such that an observer walking around the perimeter of the ROBOT can unambiguously tell the Team’s number from any point of view.

My question is if numbers which are white, but outlined in another color would pass inspection. In particular, these: https://www.numbers4sports.com/produ...rple-4-inch-*7

Thanks for your thoughts ahead of time!

[Racer26]

I could see someone arguing this may violate the exact letter of the rule.

In practice, I don't think anyone would fail it at inspection.

Those numbers are white. They have a non-white outline. Rule says numbers must be white, OR outlined in white.

[geomapguy]

Originally Posted by burde1jb

Okay. I know bumpers are everyone's favorite topic right now at the end of build season.

Per the rule book:
R28
Team numbers must be displayed on the BUMPERS and meet the following criteria:

consist of numerals at least 4 in. high, at least ½ in. in stroke width, and be either white in color or outlined in white,
may not wrap around a corner of the FRAME PERIMETER (for the purposes of R28 a round or circular FRAME PERIMETER has no corners), and
be positioned around the ROBOT such that an observer walking around the perimeter of the ROBOT can unambiguously tell the Team’s number from any point of view.

My question is if numbers which are white, but outlined in another color would pass inspection. In particular, these: https://www.numbers4sports.com/produ...rple-4-inch-*7

Thanks for your thoughts ahead of time!

Pretty sure it'd be legal. 118 uses gold rimmed numbers

[Abhishek R]

Originally Posted by geomapguy

Pretty sure it'd be legal. 118 uses gold rimmed numbers

118's numbers are gold, outlined in white, thereby meeting the requirements of the rule. OP is asking if numbers in white can be outlined by another color.

[geomapguy]

Originally Posted by Abhishek R

118's numbers are gold, outlined in white, thereby meeting the requirements of the rule. OP is asking if numbers in white can be outlined by another color.

That's right...my bad

[burde1jb]

I appreciated the insight. I submitted an official Q&A for this (Q360).

[TedG]

Originally Posted by Racer26

To me, its a matter of intent. Yes, the Q&A is the final authority.

The intent of the rule is that everyone have easily visible numbers by using white, against the red/blue background. (Either as an outline, or the body color of the number).

Do these numbers fit that intent? Sure, I would say they do.

Originally Posted by Abhishek R

118's numbers are gold, outlined in white, thereby meeting the requirements of the rule. OP is asking if numbers in white can be outlined by another color.

I agree, the intent for this rule is to be able to read the numbers on the bumpers, the white numbers with purple outline clearly meets this intent and the rule.

As others have said, I have seen numbers on bumpers that were questionable (to me and others anyway) that apparently passed inspection.

There is no rule saying you can't ouline your white numbers, and I've seen that a lot too.

I say you're all set... But Q&A may be the way to go if you're worried.

[Doc Wu]

Speaking strictly as a spectator, not as an inspector, I really have a problem with 'creative' numbers. The point of them is to be able to identify a robot anywhere in the stands, even the top rows, as well as on the video feeds that are now commonplace in FIRST.

Practically speaking, if the border is blue or nearly blue, on the blue bumpers, it's not going to affect the visibility. Not nearly as much as gold trimmed in white. It would be great if you found a red border for your red bumpers.

Now then, as an inspector, I'd be concerned with the height and stroke width first. A colored border isn't expressly allowed or disallowed, so I'm not sure what the ruling would be. But why tempt fate?

On the other hand, the gold with white borders, even if I don't like them, they are allowed, and should pass. The rules don't even say how thick the white border has to be. It could be pencil-thin.

I really don't understand all the anguish over bumpers. No one really cares about the bumpers and how they look. They are required equipment, like a football player is required to wear a helmet and shoulder pads. What the fans remember is how he played, not how his pads worked. Just build bumpers according to the rules, put them on your robot and get on with the important stuff.

[Wayne Doenges]

Originally Posted by Doc Wu

I really don't understand all the anguish over bumpers. No one really cares about the bumpers and how they look. They are required equipment, like a football player is required to wear a helmet and shoulder pads. What the fans remember is how he played, not how his pads worked. Just build bumpers according to the rules, put them on your robot and get on with the important stuff.

I totally agree. Put your team number on the bumpers per the FIRST rules and leave it at that.
One problem I have with bumpers though is some teams must be totally color blind when it comes to matching up the red and blue from the FIRST logo. I have seen some bumper that were so dark blue they were almost black.

[burde1jb]

Q360 was answered. The answer is "No".

Looks like just fine white numbers for us.

[DELurker]

Originally Posted by burde1jb

R28
Team numbers must be displayed on the BUMPERS and meet the following criteria:

consist of numerals at least 4 in. high, at least ½ in. in stroke width, and be either white in color or outlined in white,
may not wrap around a corner of the FRAME PERIMETER (for the purposes of R28 a round or circular FRAME PERIMETER has no corners), and
be positioned around the ROBOT such that an observer walking around the perimeter of the ROBOT can unambiguously tell the Team’s number from any point of view.

My question is if numbers which are white, but outlined in another color would pass inspection.

The numbers are white 4" high with a 1/2" stroke width. Seems to meet the criteria. However, some inspector could make the claim that the number is 4" high, but the white is only 3.75" high because of the 1/8" purple perimeter.

However, given the following rule (emphasis mine):

R27
Each ROBOT must be able to display red or blue BUMPERS to match their ALLIANCE color, as assigned in the MATCH schedule distributed at the event (reference Section 5.1.1: MATCH Schedules). Markings visible when installed on the ROBOT, other than those explicitly required per R28, are prohibited.

I would have to view the outlined numbers with some suspicion. However, if other teams have used the successfully in the past, then it's probably all good. Given some of the bumper numbers I've seen in the past few years, I cannot imagine that this would be a problem.

[Jon Stratis]

The only place to get a guaranteed correct answer is the Q&A. The rule, as others have stated, does not include outlining white numerals with other colors. As such, strictly speaking, it's not legal. Does it reduce the ability to read the numbers? No. Will the inspector make you change it? Maybe, without clarification from the Q&A saying outlining the white numbers in another color is allowed.

[Racer26]

To me, its a matter of intent. Yes, the Q&A is the final authority.

The intent of the rule is that everyone have easily visible numbers by using white, against the red/blue background. (Either as an outline, or the body color of the number).

Do these numbers fit that intent? Sure, I would say they do.